I Want To Be A B/b/b Convert!!!

Hi everyone....been lurking since pool was opened a couple of days ago. Am very interested in becoming a B/B/B convert. Hate being a slave to the local pool supply store!!!!

We've had major problems this year...long story short...pool cover fell in and we have quite a mess on our hands. Tested water again this morning and these are the results:

FC = <.6
CC = <.6
TC = ???
pH = <6.8
Alk = 100
Cal = 150
CYA = <20

Pool is an 18x36 IG w/vinyl liner, in-line chlorinator currently holding what was left of last years 1" trichlor tabs, shocked yesterday with 3lbs. cal hypo powder. Filter is a PacFab DE also have a 405,000 BTU Raypak heater.

Any help/words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.

Kelly

You need to raise your ph asap, if it is testing under 7, it may be lower. Using the pucks will bring down your ph all the time. You need to add chlorine to get up to shock levels, here is a chart:

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

here is a link to a calculator that is very helpful:
http://www.hal-pc.org/~mwsmith2/BleachCalc262.exe

You will have to add some stabalizer cya) to get it to around 30 - 40 (the pucks will raise your stabalizer). So if you plan to use your inline feeder, don't take your cya up higher than 30, and you will have to keep an eye on the amount of chlorine you need compared to the amount of cya you have.

So raise your ph using borax because your alk is good. Put in a box, wait 2 hours test again, and add to get it up to 7.4

Shock the pool up to 12, and you will be good to go. I would also suggest you get a good test kit - it makes taking care of your pool a whole lot easier. The test that is sold on this site is really good.

can I add Borax thru the skimmer and broadcast granular chlorine at the same time?

Another Borax question.....You say to add a box...the box I have is a 4lb. + box. Just put the whole box in???

Yup, the 4#+ box is the standard size. I'm going to guess your pool is around 24,000 gal, so you might want to start with 2 boxes. Adding thru the skimmer is fine. You can broadcast CaHypo at the same time, but be aware that the CaHypo may make your pool somewhat cloudy. Plain, unscented bleach is the way to go if you want to impact the clarity the least.

Michael

Yup, put the whole box in through the skimmer with the pump running. It will take some time for all to disolve and circulate through the pool.

My 16x32 vinyl IG was in similar condition with pH this spring, and I initially added 16 lbs of Borax and 6 lbs of Baking Soda to get my pH up to 7.4 from below 6.8. I did this over a series of 3-4 days. The good thing is that now my pH never moves off its current level and has been steady for the last three months.

At the same time, I was adding bleach to bring my Cl up to shock level. Unfourtunately for me, my CYA was over 150, so I needed LOTS of bleach. I went through at least 15 gallons in a span of 4 days before my pool was clear. (My SWC was also running at the same time) You'll need to test at least twice a day for CL level with a good drop based kit. Add the bleach as many times a day as it takes to maintain the shock level (KEY POINT!!).

You'll want to be very dilligent to monitor your CYA and pH levels if you're going to keep using the pucks.

Ok....added chlorine this morning and a box of borax. 4 hrs. later tested water again. These are my results:

FC = 3.0 or >
CC = 5.0
TC = i'm guessing here 8.0????
pH = 7.6
Alk = 100
Cal = nothing???
CYA = <20

So, since this morning, pH and chlorine levels have gone up, Hardness has dropped to nothing and stabilizer is still the same?? Does this sound right.

dog,
What are you testing with? I ask because your chlorine and calcium hardness results are both a bit odd (that's a very high level of combined chlorine and hardness can't change that much that quickly, especially in that direction and especially because you added calcium yesterday).

I would check the hardness again, because you don't lose hardness by any way but draining. You need to add more bleach to bring you back to a ppm of 12 right away. Your other numbers are fine now - so don't add anything else. You don't need hardness in a vinyl liner pool. So you are good to go - just keep the bleach going in until you hold chlorine overnight. You can put stabalizer in by putting it in a sock, tying it to a skimmer pole and placing it in front of a return jet ( a smart perosn on this forum thought of it!) , this way you can keep backwashing the algae that was killed out of the pool. If you put the stabalizer in the skimmer you shouldn't backwash for a week.

just bought a new drop test kit yesterday. I understand the reason for the drastic change in the chlorine level......I threw 2lbs. of granular in 4 hrs. ago. I don't get the hardness level dropping like that. I also put a box of borax in 4 hrs. ago. Actually almost 5 hrs. now.

It's not that your total chlorine is so high that makes me wonder but that the combined chlorine is so high. By the way, you're correct that TC = FC + CC.

Who makes the test kit? What kind of chlorine test does it have (OTO, DPD, FAS-DPD)?

I want to be a B/B/B convert too (I think). I just had a new pool installed and it came with a Frog Mineral Purifier System hooked up. Being an excited new owner I've already learned that my local pool stores are trying to sell me EVERYTHING in the store!

Can I use Bleach, Baking Soda and Borax with my system installed? I've had conflicting opinions on the subject. I posted a thread before and got one response, but being new to all this I want to make doubly sure I don't ruin my pool.

Thanks:)

Hi,

You mentioned you have a heater - if this is the case, you do need calcium in your water. Your liner doesn't need it, but your heater does. The range is 200 to 400ppm I believe. I have been keeping mine at about 170 and I'm in line with the Langelier Saturation Index so I'm not increasing to 200 or above. Here's the link: http://www.advancedh2o.com/technical.../langlier.html

The others on the forum are much more knowlegable about the other numbers so I will leave that to them.

Hope this helps!
Tracy

KurtV - It's an AquaChem test kit......I know....not the best but all that K-Mart had. I just retested the cl and hardness. The Cl appears to be a bit above 3 but not to 5 and after waiting a few minutes for the sample to develop it really doesn't change. So I guess, in all actuality, the CC is the same as FC??? Is that right?

Now the hardness testinstructions say to "add 2 drops of solution A....sample with turn violet if hardness is present." My sample does not turn violet. However, it did this morning. Then I'm supposed to ad solution B in drops until the sample color changes to blue. This morning it took 3 drop to change to blue which made the hardness 150ppm (multiply # of drops by 50). This afternoon I had to add 36 drops to get the sample to turn a very pale blue. So that would make my water hardness 1800ppm???? This can't be right!?!?!?

dog, Sounds like you're using a DPD test for chlorine which is difficult to get good results from with high levels of chlorine (over 5 ppm), which I'm pretty sure you have.

That's probably also the problem with your calcium test; the high levels of chlorine are bleaching out the hardness indicator.

I wouldn't worry about the calcium hardness for right now (until your chlorine comes down to sub 5 ppm). Keep monitoring your chlorine levels with what you have or get a pool store that uses FAS-DPD testing to test your water.

You'll really need think about getting an FAS-DPD chlorine test if you're going to do this yourself. Ben's PS234 and the Taylor K-2006 both fit the bill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KurtV

dog, Sounds like you're using a DPD test for chlorine which is difficult to get good results from with high levels of chlorine (over 5 ppm), which I'm pretty sure you have.

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Sorry KurtV, you did ask about that. It's an OTO test. I think, just to be on the safe side, I'm gonna take a sample to the pool store tomorrow morning. Thanks so much for all your help. I'm sure I'll be back with plenty more questions. :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2dogpool

KurtV - It's an AquaChem test kit......I know....not the best but all that K-Mart had. I just retested the cl and hardness. The Cl appears to be a bit above 3 but not to 5 and after waiting a few minutes for the sample to develop it really doesn't change. So I guess, in all actuality, the CC is the same as FC??? Is that right?

Now the hardness testinstructions say to "add 2 drops of solution A....sample with turn violet if hardness is present." My sample does not turn violet. However, it did this morning. Then I'm supposed to ad solution B in drops until the sample color changes to blue. This morning it took 3 drop to change to blue which made the hardness 150ppm (multiply # of drops by 50). This afternoon I had to add 36 drops to get the sample to turn a very pale blue. So that would make my water hardness 1800ppm???? This can't be right!?!?!?

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A few notes about the Aquachem test kit.
First it uses OTO to test for chlorine. OTO is not a reliable indicator of FC. It is really only a test for TC. You need a DPD (turns pink) or an FAS-DPD
(Titration test and very accurate, even at high chlorine levels and can detect as low as .2 ppm CC)

Second, there seems to be some issues with the CH test in this kit. It does not produce reliable results under certain conditions. Check out this thread for more details.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1112

Hope this helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tcap

Hi,

You mentioned you have a heater - if this is the case, you do need calcium in your water. Your liner doesn't need it, but your heater does. The range is 200 to 400ppm I believe. I have been keeping mine at about 170 and I'm in line with the Langelier Saturation Index so I'm not increasing to 200 or above. Here's the link: http://www.advancedh2o.com/technical.../langlier.html

The others on the forum are much more knowlegable about the other numbers so I will leave that to them.

Hope this helps!
Tracy

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Not to sound too stupid but......no, doesn't help at all!!! What is the Langelier Saturation Index?????:eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2dogpool

Not to sound too stupid but......no, doesn't help at all!!! What is the Langelier Saturation Index?????:eek:

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Something you really don't have to worry about if you keep tabs on your pH and keep your water balanced as eveyone on here will help you to!

The Langelier SI is something that was designed for closed systems like boilers and the majority of the pool industry has bought into it because:
1) They didn't have anything better
2) It help to sell a LOT of unnecessary chemicals!

It really isn't applicable to an open system like a swimming pool. If you have a heater or grouted tilework you probably do need some calcium in your water but the pH is going to be the main factor that determines how aggresive or scaling your water is. The SI is a rough guide at best and changes with the temperature. Ben pointed out in one post how people are careful to balance it for the water temperature in their pool but don't take into account that the water temperature inside the heat exchanger is higher and that their water is no longer balanced!

Bottom line...Don't lose any sleep over the Saturation Index no matter what dire consequences:rolleyes: the pool store might tell you will happen!

Don't worry about your calcium for now, because you had calcium in your pool, and you have been shocking with cal hypo - which will add calcium to your pool, you probably have enough. Just keep adding bleach - you must keep it at 12ppms if you are to get rid of the algae. If you start to measure cya in your pool you must check the chart and keep your chlorine levels at shock until the algae is dead. Remember to backwash. Now that you have your ph up, the most important thing is to keep up with the chlorine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waterbear

A few notes about the Aquachem test kit.
First it uses OTO to test for chlorine. OTO is not a reliable indicator of FC. It is really only a test for TC. You need a DPD (turns pink) or an FAS-DPD
(Titration test and very accurate, even at high chlorine levels and can detect as low as .2 ppm CC)

Second, there seems to be some issues with the CH test in this kit. It does not produce reliable results under certain conditions. Check out this thread for more details.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1112

Hope this helps.

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Went back and read the thread you posted. That's the kit I have and the exact results I've gotten!!! Worked fine the first time and now the first solution does not even change the water sample to violet. I'll have to try the 8-10 drops and see what happens. There is a "disclaimer" of sorts on the instruction sheet. Across the top of the instructions for pH, Alk and CH tests it says "Do not perform following tests if total available chlorine exceeds 3.0 ppm." So, I'm guessing that this test kit is crap when attempting to clean your water and balance it at the same time???

I may be wrong, but I 'm wondering if perhaps the chlorine readings are off. Having a CC of 3 is pretty high especially since in her earlier post it was .6. I would recheck those numbers.