Looking to buy our first pool.. Wondering about pricing and options..

No. You don't need it and its hard to tell what is in it.

And here is their reply regarding a bigger pump..

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We offer larger sand tanks made by Hayward with a pump but they are $100 more than the Waterway 19” system. It is called the S-180 T with 1.5 HP pump. We do have even bigger than that also, but the tank and pump would be purchased separately at that point.

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So I'm assuming that's a good sized filter (150lb) but is the 1.5HP too much?

You can probably ask them what the up-charge would be to get a 22" filter . . . which would be ideal.

Here's the complete package at Amazon for about $600:

Hayward S220T 22" Sand filter
Hayward SP15922S Power-Flo Pump

Printo those out, and show them to him. I'd expect about a $400 upcharge over what he wants to give you. But that combo will make your pool MUCH easier to maintain, your water much clearer, and will reduce operating costs significantly. (Leave it on low speed, unless you're cleaning or have a problem.)

You would expect him to upcharge me $400 for what again?

Thanks for those links.. I'll see what I can get the pool for without any pump/filter and then maybe just buy that.. I'm assuming I would need piping etc with that right? They don't come with?

If you supply the pumps, you can ask him to include connection to your equipment, if he doesn't want to sell you those items. And if you get your own, get a set of valves to put downstream of the filter and upstream of the pump -- it makes service MUCH easier.

Valterra 6201 PVC Gate Valve, White, 1.5" Slip 2" Slip

Valterra 700-15 PVC Ball Valve, White, 1-1/2" Slip
Valterra 700-20 PVC Ball Valve, White, 2" Slip

The gate valves are easier; the ball valves are cheaper and more durable. Just remember to set the handles on a 45 to winterize them: they trap water internally in both the fully closed and the fully open positions.

There's also a 27" (350 lbs) sand filter on that Amazon page for only $40 more that would work well too.

I think if it is only $40 more, I'd be inclined to get that one instead.

Yeah, I hadn't checked that. But that would be better. With sand filters, the biggest filter you can backwash is the best choice. It takes about 13 - 14 GPM/sft to backwash sand.

Thanks for the replies..

What is everyone's thoughts regarding steel vs resin? I have a pool that has steel columns and a resin ledge.. I also have a pool that has steel ledge and steel columns (this pool has "textured resin coating" applied to the steel)..

I've just been looking and looking for hours and 5 stores and I still haven't pulled the trigger. I don't know if I'm being too anal or what..

Thanks

resin = plastic; can be good; can be bad.

I kinda wish my pool had resin rails. I worry that the steel rails in contact with the ground are rusting into oblivion as I worry. I know this is ridiculous, but... I worry. I'm less inclined to wish for resin ledge as that sits in the sun all day and the sun will do a number on plastic. Resin ledges do look great.

Not really helpful - sorry - just my thoughts.

Ok bought the pool! So glad this is done with! I bought it without the pump and filter and plan on getting the ones that were suggested on here.. One thing though.. I will have to get all the hoses and fittings.. Not a big deal.. Just need to figure out what I need.. Are the ones linked all of them?

Also, I get no plastic "pad" since I'm buying separate.. I liked those because they had outlines of where the filter, pump, and feeder system would go (even though I'm not going to be really using the feeder system - I did get it in the package and may use it when on vacation and what not)..

What do you guys do if you don't get that plastic pad? Do they sell those? They seemed to be pretty specific to pump/filter combo.

Thanks!

Hose kits only come packaged with the filter, they are not included in any other part of a pool package. Most filters can be bought with, or without, a hose kit. I would go without. I would go to the hardware store and buy 7 1 1/2" male adapters and about 15' of 1 1/2" flexible PVC pipe, some pipe dope, teflon tape and PVC glue. As Ben suggested add a couple of valves for cleaning and even a few quick disconnects for bringing the filter in during the winter, if that's what you plan to do. Doing this right the first time will save you so much in the way of expense and time saved in the long run.

As for the pad, I have no idea about the filter placement thing, never heard of that, but as for pads, I do not like them and seldom used them. I would go without.

Later, Dennis

I used a pad made for a central air conditioning unit.

Thanks for the wake up Dave, I was thinking pool pad not filter pad. The A/C pad is an excellent option. Patio pavers can work well also. But yes, you want something solid under a sand filter. Having filter location marked is useless, proper filter placement should be pretty obvious.

Dennis

Dennis, what do you find works best for quick disconnects on AG pools -- standard unions or something else?

I've used, at various times, 1.5" or 2" Fernco couplings for disconnects. Have you seen that? Do you know of any downside from using them?

What about slice valves vs. ball valves? The slice valves are more compact and are easier to use, but you can't thottle with them. Plus the Valterra's have zinc plated bolt/nut sets and I'm not sure how they stand up.

This True Union Ball Valve would be perfect for the skimmer and return. It provides a nice ball valve and a quick disconnect for about 25.00 each.

http://www.intheswim.com/Pool-Equipm...on-Ball-Valve/

A standard union between pump and filter would do the job.

Back in my early days we used brass valves and the hacksaw disconnect. Most of our installs were with the factory flex hose so we never got too carried away with plumbing, plus in Arizona the pools were left up and running year round.

I provided labor only letting the different pool stores sell what ever they wanted, or could, to their customers. What they sold is what we installed. They slice valves became very popular later on, many of the filter kits even included them. Never had a problem with them.

Never actually submitted! :) Here it is:

Man.. This buying filter / pump separately is adding up!!

So $600 - $650 for the filter and pump..

So I need to buy (7) of these 1 1/2" mail PVC adapters.. - $9

15' of 1 1/2" - around $40? Price unknown

250 - 350lbs of sand - Around $100

A/C Pad to set everything on - Around $40

2 Ball valves - $10 (Do I need just two total?)

Anything else? Can someone give me a brief - this goes here, connected to this, etc?

So that's about $800.. Gulp.. That is the pump/filter combo I should go with, right? Nothing cheaper? I know I do want a 2 speed to save the energy.. What was the reason to get such a ginormous filter for again? Less backwashing?

Thanks again for all the knowledge..

+ The reason for the big filter is filtration. I won't ask you to hunt for them, but there are dozens of threads here from AG pool owners who find that their pool is still cloudy weeks after they've killed all the algae. I can pretty much guarantee that, when your chemistry is right, your pool will be the just about the clearest AG pool you've seen. Pools with DE filters may be a bit clearer, but they are a nightmare to work with when there's algae or another problem.

+ As you can see by following the link, 1.5" PVC pipe at Lowes is about $0.60/ft

+ 1.5" ball valves will probably more like $10 each, depending on whether you get them with a union or not.

+ I'm not sure why you have to do the installation; it shouldn't be harder to install this equpment, then the original combo.

+ For a pad, if you want to save a bit, you can get the 12" x 12" x 2" pavers and use those, instead. You'll need to put a bit of effort into leveling the ground underneath them. I'd get 12 pavers, and double stack them, so you're 4" off the ground.

+ If you're doing the piping yourself, use this pipe dope. It's much easier to use than teflon tape and gives a better seal. You might find it at your Lowes, but it wasn't listed online, so the link is to Amazon.

Rectorseal 31631 1/4 Pint Brush Top Tru-Blu Pipe Thread Sealant

+ While you are on Amazon, you may want to get this strap wrench set; a lot of people damage their pipe fittings using a conventional pipe wrench or channel locks.

+ Also this Oatey 'blue glue' is more forgiving than some and works well. If you've never fitted PVC pipe before, READ instructions before you start.

Hope this helps, rather than overwhelms!

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

+ The reason for the big filter is filtration. I won't ask you to hunt for them, but there are dozens of threads here from AG pool owners who find that their pool is still cloudy weeks after they've killed all the algae. I can pretty much guarantee that, when your chemistry is right, your pool will be the just about the clearest AG pool you've seen. Pools with DE filters may be a bit clearer, but they are a nightmare to work with when there's algae or another problem.

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So are you still saying to get that same pump/filter you linked? $600 - No other options you can suggest? I'll spend the $600 if you think that is the solution for my pool just wanted to make sure..

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+ As you can see by following the link, 1.5" PVC pipe at Lowes is about $0.60/ft

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I need flexible tubing, not PVC, don't I?

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+ I'm not sure why you have to do the installation; it shouldn't be harder to install this equpment, then the original combo.

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I don't have to do the install.. The installer will do it, however, the pool place isn't giving me any of the tubing / connections since I'm buying my own pump/filter.. That's what I need to know exactly what I need so I can have it here for him.

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+ For a pad, if you want to save a bit, you can get the 12" x 12" x 2" pavers and use those, instead. You'll need to put a bit of effort into leveling the ground underneath them. I'd get 12 pavers, and double stack them, so you're 4" off the ground.

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Thanks for the suggestion.. I'll look at those or see how hard it will be for me to pour a pad.. Thing is, if I choose to do the pad, I'll have to wait until it's installed so I can make sure the location is correct.

To add to what Ben said, the filter is the most important part of your pool. In my forty plus years of installing above grounds I have had plenty of access to free used pools. People pay me to remove them from their yards when they are tired of them. Whenever I needed a pool I had access to a free one. I would add to it the cheapest liner I could find. During the internet age it would be the cheapest blue 20 gauge I could find. I know how to take care of a liner and get the most out of them. If I had to change it in five years, the new liner was cheep and the labor free. The only place I was picky was what I used to clean the pool with. I have always used top notch filter equipment and my kids always swam in sparkling clean water. They did not care whether or not there were fish all over the liner, or whether there were huge 8" resin top seats surrounding them. Actually, these were not options when I was raising kids, but anyway, they always had sparkling clean water to swim in.

The filter equipment you choose will have a direct bearing on how much enjoyment you get out of the pool.

Later, Dennis

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Originally Posted by hrsdennis

To add to what Ben said, the filter is the most important part of your pool. In my forty plus years of installing above grounds I have had plenty of access to free used pools. People pay me to remove them from their yards when they are tired of them. Whenever I needed a pool I had access to a free one. I would add to it the cheapest liner I could find. During the internet age it would be the cheapest blue 20 gauge I could find. I know how to take care of a liner and get the most out of them. If I had to change it in five years, the new liner was cheep and the labor free. The only place I was picky was what I used to clean the pool with. I have always used top notch filter equipment and my kids always swam in sparkling clean water. They did not care whether or not there were fish all over the liner, or whether there were huge 8" resin top seats surrounding them. Actually, these were not options when I was raising kids, but anyway, they always had sparkling clean water to swim in.

The filter equipment you choose will have a direct bearing on how much enjoyment you get out of the pool.

Later, Dennis

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Thank you Dennis.. So are you in agreement with this filter and this pump?

definitely

O.M.G.!! I got the filter today.. The 27".. It is HUUUUUUUUGE!!! The delivery guy was like "This must be one huge pool..."

Sure hope you guys were right! LOL

Wait till you see the water.

Be SURE to use labeled filter sand -- and not the Quikrete 'filter sand' Lowes is selling.

Where is the best place to get the sand? I just checked Leslie's website and their sand is $25 for 25lbs!!! That would cost me $350 just for sand.. I'm sure hoping I can get it a lot cheaper somewhere else or I'm going to be kicking myself for getting a filter this big..

Thanks

How about this sand? http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...uctId=11683357

I think the HTH sand is probably as good as you'll get. It costs about $8 standard wholesale (non-Florida markets), so $13 is not a bad price for a hard to handle product.

The Leslie's prices is probably a 'free shipping' price; if there's a local Leslie's store, they may be MUCH cheaper, since local supplies would have been delivered in bulk by truck.

I should add, if you want to save a bit of money, and can get the crummy Quikrete sand for less, you should be able to use that cheap sand for the first 150lbs or so.

One tip: put enough water in the filter to cover the laterals with 6" of water BEFORE adding sand. That will keep you from busting laterals when you pour the sand in.

I looked on Leslies web site and the $25 for 25lb price is for zeosand. I couldn't find a price for filtersand.

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

I probably should add, people brag about getting a great deal, but not about the stupid mistakes they make. (Me too! I still haven't told the story of the 300,000 gallon pool I turned purple, while 200 people were swimming in it!)

As a result, you tend to hear from your friends and buddies when they save money by doing it themselves, or buying it themselves, but not so much, when it all goes sour. This tends to make DIY or BIY projects sound better than they are.

We see it all the time here, where a poster will be actively posting, till it finally becomes clear even to them, that THEY were the ones that screwed up . . . at which point they disappear from the forum.

Information flow is such an interesting topic (to those of us with philosophical inclinations).

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Originally Posted by Watermom

Ok, Ben. I've heard mention of this story several times through the years. I think it is finally time that you spill! Whatdya think, people? We wanna hear this story, right??? ;)

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Yes! I want the hear this story. ;)

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Originally Posted by PoolDoc

Maybe after the 4th . . .

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Patiently waiting...hehehe. ;)

So I still need to know what fittings I need.. I got six of these, (2) 6' x 1 1/2" hoses, and (1) 1 1/2" hose.. Don't I need some other stuff in order to have shut off valves etc??

The 6 fittings are for: 1 on skimmer, 1 on pool jet, 2 on sand filter, and 2 on pump.. One of my 6' flexible hoses will go from skimmer to pump, the other 6' will go from sand filter to pool.. Then a 3' flexible hose will connect the pump and the filter together.. Is that right?

Where do I add the gate valves and what fittings do I need to do so??

Really sorry but I swear my local pool places are morons.. I asked both my local store and Leslie's what I need to connect my pump/filter since I bought them separate.. Both looked at me like I was speaking Greek..

You'll need one more 1.5" NPT to 1.5" hose fitting for a backwash hose and you'll need a backwash hose.

Valves are optional but are real handy for doing maintenance on the pump and filter. I have a ball valve on the suction and return sides so I can shut off the water from the pool and clean the pump strainer etc. Unions or Quick-connects make it easy to remove equipment for winter storage or maintenance - I believe hrsdennis linked a True Union ball valve earlier in this thread - this is a valve that has unions built in on each side.

Pool being installed today.. They said the 3' corrugated flexible tubing I got to go from the pump/filter isn't what I should use..

Looking in the PDF of the filter it shows to get a 33" vinyl hose (SX201Z1 BUT it says that is for a

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18", 21", and 23" system

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.. What am I supposed to get for this monster 27" filter?? I can't find jack on their website or documentation..

Thanks

I'm sure they sell vinyl tubing at lowes and what not.. Anyone know what kind I need to get? Is it 1 1/2" ID?

Thanks!

In post #53 hrsdennis suggested flex PVC piping, PVC fittings, glue and thread sealant.

Surprisingly, what appears to be good quality flex is available on Amazon:

1.5" White PVC Flex
1.5" Black PVC Flex

2" White PVC Flex
2" Black PVC Flex

You glue PVC flex just like PVC hard pipe using standard PVC fittings, with one VERY IMPORTANT difference: the pipe tends to slip out of the fitting, so you must hold it in place for 60 - 90 seconds. Otherwise, you'll end up with a bad joint.

Connecting it to your existing gear is something you'll have to work out.

Thanks.. Right now I just have (2) 16" x 16" x 1" cement pavers with the pump on one and the filter on the other.. Do you think I need to secure them down and if so how would you recommend doing so?

Thanks