Cloudy Water After Alum

We emptied the pool to 6" in the shallow end this weekend which would leave around 2 1/2 feet in the deepest portion of the pool. Even at that level I really had to look for the main drain to find it......disturbing.

The pool is filling at the moment. Should be full around 7-9p.m. tonight.

I'll need to work on the water balance - chlorine, ph, alkalinity, cya, hardness, salt. Can you tell me where to begin at this point?

I did order and have received the K2006 kit.

We recalculated the pool and have come up with 14,000 gallons. It's 16 x 32 with steps on each end, 5 1/2 deep in the middle and 3 1/2 on each side. Would you agree with 14,000?

I came up with 15K, but you may be compensating for actual pool layout better than I am.

Anyhow, do this:

1. Turn your pump & filter on ASAP.
2. Add 1/2 gallon of 6% plain bleach each evening, till you get on a program.
3. Do NOT try to adjust anything else, EXCEPT pH, but even then only if the pH is >8.0 or <7.0.
4. Do a complete set of tests on your pool water, once the pool is full.
5. Do NOT turn on the SWCG, yet.
6. List what chemicals you still have, on hand.

15k sounds more realistic than the 18k we initially thought it was, thanks.

OK, this might be a stupid question, but can I turn the pump on and run it if the water is not up to the return lines yet? (Obviously I'd keep the skimmer off until the water level got up to it)

I thought maybe I should backwash the filter one more time with the "cleaner" water before i started filtering ???????

I'll follow-up with a better description of the below once I check it all:

- 18-20 lbs of cya
- 10-12lbs hardness from Leslie's
- 30 - 50 lbs Bi-carb
- Heading to Walmart for Bleach and Borax at lunch.
- 25lb bag of DE.

Thank you!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PoolDoc

5. I talked with customer support at Natural Chemistry. Their "Metal Free" is just citric acid, so if there's chlorine in the pool, there's no citric acid left, since chlorine rapidly destroys citric acid.

---

Ben,
Unless the MSDS I have from natural Chemistry and the correspondence from them is wrong, Metal Free is basically EDTA (since they tout it as a 'phosphate free metal sequatrant). Their Stain Free product is ascorbic acid. I used to retail their products.
So much for their "customer support"!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigDave

None of the @#$%$ has ever been in my pool. Fiber Clear is the weirdest thing this pool has seen. It may be fine as a DE replacement in a DE filter I don't know. In my experience it didn't help in a sand filter and left me with chunks of newspaper delivered in a thunderstorm and run over by the car. Perhaps it is incompatible with the DHMO that I use in excess.

Sorry, wits, for the Hijack. Follow PoolDoc's advice. He will help you. POP is the one thing you can't overuse.

---

Dave, have you ever added polyquat? It will react much the same with the cellulose fiber.

No, WB, no polyquat. Water, Bleach, Borax, CYA, and a little Baking Soda... people and toys too. Started this pool new last year. The pool store that sold me the Fiber Clear intimated but wouldn't actually say that DE is illegal. I gave it a shot, I expected more. Perhaps my pump was too small to adequately backwash this stuff out of the 27" filter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by waterbear

Ben,
Unless the MSDS I have from natural Chemistry and the correspondence from them is wrong, Metal Free is basically EDTA

---

I don't have Natural Chemistry MSDS sheets, for the most part; would you mind sending me copies of the ones you have, so I can add them to the SwimmingPoolResearch files?

Once I publish all that, we'll have better info on most of the pool chemicals, than the 'support staff' do!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by At wits end

OK, this might be a stupid question, but can I turn the pump on and run it if the water is not up to the return lines yet? (Obviously I'd keep the skimmer off until the water level got up to it)

I thought maybe I should backwash the filter one more time with the "cleaner" water before i started filtering ???????

---

If you can get the pump to prime, and stay primed, it's OK to run the system. On most pools this means you have to have a main drain, AND a valve that allows you to cut off the skimmer, so you can pull water from the main drain alone.

If you can get it primed, backwashing would be fine.

Don't add the hardness or bicarb till later (and maybe, not ever). Don't add the CYA till you have the system running and circulating.

The pump did prime at lunch time yesterday so i was able to start the filter as I do have a separate valve on the skimmer. I also back washed it first to get rid of the water that was in the filter and to clean it. The pool looks good. Not sparkling, but I wouldn't say cloudy. I'm just thrilled to be able to see the bottom again, but now please help me make it sparkle!!!

I'm also amazed at the test results I pulled this morning considering the only thing we've put in there was a gallon of bleach. I know, I know, you told me 1/2 a gallon, but my husband said that wouldn't do anything, so I added the other half. No more listening to him when it comes to the pool, I promise!!! My readings are below:

FC = 14 ppm - did i do that right? (5 with my smaller Taylor kit)
CC = 2 (I get 2 with the smaller Taylor kit)
TC = 3
PH = 7.7
Alk = 80
Hardness = 50
CYA = less than 30 - I filled up the tube, but could always make out the dot

I don't know what to add first or how much and then at what point do I add salt, how much and when to turn it on.

Thanks for your help!

If I understand you correctly, you have about 15 - 20 # of CYA on hand? If so, once your filter can run 2 - 3 days between backwashes, begin adding it slowly, via the skimmer. Add 3 - 5 lbs just AFTER each backwash. It's slow to dissolve, and will have to sit on your filter.

Once you do this, do not add ANY other chemicals via the skimmer, except bleach or borax. While there's CYA on top of the filter sand, add everything else directly to the pool . . . of course, there's really not much else you should be adding.

Check your CYA after backwashing, but before adding the next dose. You probably want to get to 80 ppm before your turn your SWCG on. Add bleach each evening, as needed, till you are ready to turn it on.

If you want your pool to 'sparkle' there's persistent evidence that 50+ ppm of borates will make a significant contribution to this. For your pool, that means about 12 boxes of borax, plus about 4 gallons of muriatic acid to lower the pH. If you lower your pH FIRST, and keep it low, you'll also lower your CARBONATE alkalinity at the same time, that you are increasing alkalinity from borates and cyanurates. The combination of low carbonate alkalinity and borates will reduce your pool's liklihood of getting algae. To add borates that way, add 1/2 of a bottle of muriatic at a time, till your pH goes below 7.0. Then, add a box of borax -- slowly through the skimmer -- each day, till it goes above 7.2 again. Then, add borax again, and so on, till all your borax is consumed. Once that's done, add enough additional borax to get your pH to 7.4 - 7.8. If you arrange your returns so they ruffle the surface, or even splash, you increase removal of carbonate alkalinity.

Now, this also means that you should NOT use the bicarbonate or sodium carbonate you have, since those increase carbonate alkalinity.

Just to be clear, TA = Total alkalinity = alkalinity from carbonates, borates, cyanurates, and possibly phosphates. Carbonate alkalinity refers exclusively to alkalinity from baking soda, washing soda, or carbon dioxide.

And read this post: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?13111 about using muriatic acid safely.