Looking for Advice - Possible SWG Convert

[SteveK2]

Hi All,
I am considering the installation of a SWG this spring and would like to get some input on my decision.

It is a given that installing a SWG will be more convenient than adding chlorine to the pool on a regular (daily) basis. So what I am interested in knowing, specifically, is if using an SWG will require longer run times for my pool pump in order to generate enough chlorine for sanitization.

Pool specifics: 20x40 I/G vinyl liner @approximately 30,000 gallons. Over the last 2 summers, I have run my pump/filter for 8 hours per day in 2 four-hour shifts. This and proper chlorine levels has kept the pool sparkling clear. I have usually shocked the pool right after parties or weekly.

As a former Baquacil user who converted 3 seasons ago, I really enjoy the cost savings and cleanliness of the chlorine pool. The chemical maintenance is not really a chore for me since I am usually home anyway. I would appreciate the convenience of a SWG, but I do not want to see my electrical bill skyrocket due to long run times.

Right now, this is the last factor in my decision to go SWG or not.

I'd appreciate hearing any pros or cons on pump run times from SWG users.

TIA,
SteveK

[nater]

Hey SteveK2,

To directly answer your question, I run my pool 8-10 hours per day in summer (4 hours at night, and 4-6 hours during the day). If you find that your Cl output is not keeping up with demand, you can increase the output % to compensate and keep the pump run time the same. (at least on the Autopilot)

Depending on the system you purchase, I'd oversize it. My pool is around 20,000 and I went with the 60 series cell (check ebay). I can maintain 3-6 ppm FC at an output 15-30%, which should lead to longer cell life. I still use bleach if I need to shock (dead animal/big party/small kids) instead of using the "boost" mode on the SWC.

I'd recomend you read this thread a few times to get a better understanding of the ins/outs of SWC's.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1226

Here's another in-depth discussion on SWC pools and rising pH. Bottom line is that running lower TA (60-80) in a vinyl pool seems to decreases the pH rise over time. I used much less acid once I used Chem Geeks suggested targets for pH and TA.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=5379

For winter time operation, you may still need some occasional bleach. I've used 6 gallons so far this winter (Nov-Feb) as the water temp is too cold for the SWC to work, but just warm enough to grow the green stuff. (I keep it open year round.)

Since installing my SWC (and finding this forum ) I've only had one "issue" in two years with cloudy water, mostly due to lots of rain and low output on the SWC. A couple gallons of bleach and 8 hours later, problem solved. Much better than the first summer I spent being Pool Stored, spending hundreds of $, and swimming in a green pool. I absolutely love my SWC!!!

[Davenj]

Great response nater. I run my setup a little different. 18x36 vinyl with 2 speed pump. Filter run time is 11 hrs., on low speed I am probably moving about 35 gal/min. I believe on high its not economical or effecient for the SWC. Autopilot also, was well worth the investment.
By the way haven't tried Chem Geeks reccomendations. Have to read some more, I am also running a heater.

[CarlD]

I keep toying with the idea of an SWG because it SO cool to re-gen chlorine, but I just can't get past the cost/benefit analysis. The simplest ones run about $1000--and that's at a minimum 10 seasons' worth of bleach. Plus they DO require weekly maintenance and monitoring. I usually add between a 1/2 gallon and a gallon every other day. If we go away, and the pool isn't being used (I cover it) I simply have whoever is watching the house add the 1/2 gallon every other day and ALWAYS come back to a perfect pool.

Since I try to follow my own motto (see below) I just cannot see enough benefit to justify it.

[CanuckPool]

Hey CarlD, I think the best times to get an SWG is if you are

A) buying a house with a pool and you are new to pool maintenece
B) Getting a new pool
C) a convert from baq
D) if you like the idea of having one less thing (bleach) to buy from the store and maintain.

I don't think you can necessarily look at it as a cost saving item... its more of a "less maintenece" thing. If you are on top of your pool every week.. and enjoy doing so, there should be no reason to change.

[JoshU]

In addition to the benefits mentioned above you also get superior water quality. It eliminates "chlorine skin". When you leave a chlorine pool your skins feels very dry. Whereas when you leave a salt pool your skin will feel rejuvenated.

If you've spent $30,000 or more on building a pool then why wouldn't you want the best and most comfortable water.

Josh

[CanuckPool]

Oh yea! Better water, or what it really is, is more consistant chlorinated water. There is less ups and downs. Having the salt also really helps the water feel softer. The only drawback i have and other people is that some cheaper stainless screws will rust.

Like you mentioned, you're going to drop 30,000+ easily, not including landscaping, whats 1,000? But like I said, its much easier to do when you are building a new pool. If you have had a pool built before they were popular and are used to doing it "the old fashioned way" then I can see how you would have to weigh the costs vs. benefits senario.

[CarlD]

In addition to the benefits mentioned above you also get superior water quality. It eliminates "chlorine skin". When you leave a chlorine pool your skins feels very dry. Whereas when you leave a salt pool your skin will feel rejuvenated.

If you've spent $30,000 or more on building a pool then why wouldn't you want the best and most comfortable water.

Josh

Yeah, I've heard that--it makes a great sales pitch for an expensive add-on. But I've noticed that ocean swimming leaves my skin feeling briney--AND dry. You must keep your salt level between the body's natural salinity level but within the SWG's range for the unit. Too high a salt level and you get sea-water--which IS irritating and drying.

SWGs work at using lower chlorine levels by keeping a very, very constant Free Chlorine level to stay ahead of contaminants. Also, saline is less hospitable to most organics that appear in your pool. But you STILL must do weekly checking of FC and CC levels and shock as necessary.

Chlorine irritation is a myth. Chlorine gets blamed for bad maintenance habits, inadequate testing, and mis-understanding what the 5 basic tests mean (Chlorine FC/CC, pH, Total Alkalinity, Cyanuric Acid/Stabilizer, and Calcium Hardness).

What we seek to do at this forum is help people understand these things, and how to make pool maintenance easy and simple, with no mystery and no magic cures.

I spend 2-5 minutes per day, if that much, on pool maintenance. I run quick OTO test on chlorine and pH. Once a week I run 4 of the 5 tests (since I have a vinyl pool I only check Calcium a few times a season). That takes 15 minutes. But if I find something that is NOT right, I act immediately to counter it.

We never have a problem with "chlorine skin" despite my CONSISTENTLY keeping my FC between 4 and 8ppm. That's because "chlorine skin" is due to high levels of Combined Chloramines, or CCs. Combined Chloramines dry and irritate your skin, burn your eyes, giving you "chlorine eyes". They also smell bad and give the characteristic "chlorine smell". I can have my pool at 8 or even 10ppm and you won't smell chlorine because I have NO Combined Chloramines.

Furthermore, high levels of Combined Chloramines indicates your pool water is fighting something--bacteria, viruses, algae, excess suntan lotion, something. Your Free Chlorine (FC) is being used up metabolizing it, leaving behind irritating CCs, and, whatever is being metabolized may be an irritant as well.

To get rid of those Combined Chloramines you must shock your pool with more chlorine until ALL the CC is gone.

But if you CONSISTENTLY test your water and keep your FC where it belongs the Combined Chloramines will never be a problem. And nobody's skin will be irritated. GENUINE sensitivity to chlorine is a VERY rare condition. Almost all cases that people THINK are chlorine sensitivity are due to improper chemical levels and poor maintenance.

Salt in your water has a HIDDEN problem nobody talks about: People with high blood pressure or other low-sodium diets must be VERY careful not to ingest the water. Even a house-hold water-softener is a risk. My mother-in-law cannot drink our house water because of the softener and must drink salt-free bottled water. I'm not against SWGs--But they are not a cure-all. My maintenance effort is so low I personally won't get much bang for the buck.

Please do not come to this board and tell us that chlorine is responsible for skin irritation. It is not. Poor water maintenance is the cause of that irritation, poor maintenance and ignorance about chlorine. All 4 of the monitors, as well as the board owner use bleach at high levels to keep our pools sweet and sanitary, without problems for any of our swimmers.

[aquarium]

Agree with Carl on this one. We bought a house that came with a pool (first pool we've ever owned) last April and it took me a couple of months to get up to speed. It turned out there were several things wrong with the equipment and previous maintenance. After switching to BBB I looked closely at both SWG and liquid chlorine dosers. I'm now glad I didn't bother with either.

While adding chlorine in the summer can be a bit of a chore, keeping the pool over the last few months has been a breeze with twice a week dosing and very minimal pump runtimes. At this point, I wouldn't want another piece of equipment to maintain, nor another water parameter to test. And, you can always add salt if you just want that feel.

[JoshU]

Carl,

Thanks for the feedback. I certainly didn't mean to make it sound like Chlorine will cause "skin irritation". I was just saying that many people who we deal with feel the difference between the two methods.

Thanks,
Josh