Time to get out the Reciprocating Saw?

[DavidD]

Has anyone ever had problems getting ladders/rails out? Mine have always been a little difficult. I usually have to bang on the undersides with a 2x8 and I’ve always noticed a white powdery substance in the sleeve once I finally get them out.
This year they appear to be stuck. The sleeves appear to be made of aluminum, embedded in the concrete and the rails are stainless. I’ve got the heat gun on one as I type hoping to loosen it up but so far, no luck.
Any suggestions?

Dave

[Poconos]

I knew there was a thread about this. Trick was to find it. See if this helps.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=6029

Al

[CanuckPool]

A mechanic friend told me to put vaseline inbetween the rim and drum brake of a car, so that after the winter (winter tires to summer) when you pull the lugs off, the vaseline keeps the rim from corroding and bonding to the brake rotor, I have tried it and it works, no more 4x4 wood and hammer routine. I wonder if this same trick would work when you put the ladder back in next spring... maybe you could put a thin bead of silicone around the top so that the water doesnt wash the vaseline away.

[DavidD]

Thanks for the link Al. I figured someone had been there before. Boy what a pain! Visualize this, A 4 Runner in the back yard with a 3 strand rope tied to the hitch and the other end tied to a handrail, the wife in the truck, inching forward while I'm banging on the bottom with a rubber mallet and a 2x4. It finally twisted and broke the bond. I though the wife was going to cry she was so elated. So after a half of a can of WD-40, many hours spread out over the weekend banging, prodding, twisting, jacking (I used a floor jack as well), cursing I finally got both the ladder and rail out! Waste was right in the other post, P.O.P. (Pool Owner Patience) is exactly what it took. All the pipes are slightly dinged up but definitely still usable and not very noticeably damaged.
This past year when installing, I used Lithium grease to try to prevent this from happening. Unfortunately, it was worse this year than it had ever been. Can't figure out why. I'm going to try the Vaseline or maybe even bearing grease next year. Using silicon around the top to keep the water out is an excellent idea Canuck! I'll try that as well. I'm also going to take both the ladder and rail out every couple of months next year to keep them loose.

Dave

[waste]

AS this is the second incarnation of this problem, I'll add a bit more to the answer I gave in the posted link. (I know that DavidD's problem is solved, but to prevent my fogetting to post it next fall, I'll add it to the data base)
In my other (linked to) post I crypticly asked whether a SWCG was involved - last year I noticed that while some of the older pools has 'stubborn' rails,(ladders)- almost all the new pools with SWCGs had PITA rails. After finally figuring out the correlation between SWCGs and hard to remove rails, I posted in the SWG forum about my observation - sure enough, the knowledgable folks here answered -
A summery (from memory):
1) I wasn't halucinating (I always like to be told that, I can never be sure )
2) Salt water introduced to 2 disparate metals WILL increase the oxidation (there was a white 'slime', which I believe was oxidised aluminum from the anchor cups)
3) Try paint or tape to keep the metals separate
4) Try a 'sacrificial annode' (zink, I believe) to 'rot' before the cups or rails
5) Use plastic anchor cups (not an option, my boss refuses to even think about using them)
- I then posted a follow-up ? - "could I caulk the joint where cup and rail meet to keep the salt water out of them?"-
The answer was 'YES' - no salt water in the cups = no 'undue' oxidation.

Well, when I suggested the caulking to the boss, he promptly ignored it and kept ignoring it all year (what does he care if I have to herniate myself to remove the rails? - all he wants to know if if the pool is closed and 'can we bill them?'). So I've added another weapon to my 'rail removing arsenal' - water (our old friend DHMO ). When a rail gets stubborn (whether from SWCG or grit and debris) the first thing I do is pour some water onto the cup and work the rail as much as I can, to get the water into where it needs to be to do it's job, if it stays stubborn, I walk away and do something else for a few minutes, then come back and try again. It may take a few repititions and PATIENCE, but usually works. Water is aka the 'universal solvent' and can work wonders on all sorts of things which need a little 'lubing'.

As said before, Dave - I'm glad you were able to resolve your rail issues!

[DavidD]

Thanks for the feedback Waste! Though I don't have a SWCG, I do keep around 3200 ppm of salt in my pool. Excellent observation regarding the corrosion. As I stated, this year was the worse and the first thing I tried was water, obviously to no avail. I assume all pools are the same but not only do I have Aluminum cups & Stainless Steel Rails, but everything is bonded together with copper wire! So I guess we not only have 3 dissimilar metals but maybe even some low voltage current? Either way, I'm going to not only grease and caulk next year but will try painting of the cups as well. Thanks again.

Dave

[joenj]

I don't think painting the rails or cups would be a good idea. The ground bonding is to prevent an electric shock to someone touching a rail that may have gotten HOT,electrically.

[DavidD]

Excellent point Joe. I seemed to have forgotten what the grounding was for

Dave

[CrisL]

Although I have never tried it, maybe a little anti-seize or anti-galling compound spread on the rails will work. Some of these compounds are specifically made to prevent stainless steel from seizing when in contact with other metals.

[Poconos]

Something to remember about grounding in this particular case, and from a practical viewpoint....the only way a ladder can get 'hot' is if something contacts it from above like a bare wire on an extension cord. If you're working like this you shouldn't be in the water. Even with paint, grease, or anything else, you should still get continuity through the anchors or whatever they're called, that tighten the rails in place. grounding things 'underground' are a different issue because of voltage gradients that can exist in the earth.
Al