The Great Nature2 Debate

[CarlD]

Nature2 IS too good to be true. See if you can figure out how it works....good luck!

What N2 does is dump silver and copper into your water. This (hopefully) inhibits algae growth therefore reducing (not eliminating) the amount of chlorine you need.

Thus, you end up with metals in your water that cause all sorts of problems.

We see newcomers all the time who think that chlorine is somehow a bad thing. What most learn is that the problems they have had are wrongly attributed to chlorine but are, in fact, due to badly maintained pools.

You have only 3 choices for sanitizing your pool: Chlorine, Bromine and Bacquacil. Chlorine is the cheapest, easiest to use, most effective, and easiest to diagnose for problems. All others are snake oil.

Here's an example of one we teach here that freaks people out: Do you smell chlorine in your pool, and it's really strong, and you want get rid of it so you....?
We tell you to add MORE chlorine to get rid of the smell!

Sound crazy? It's not. The smell is from "used up" chlorine--combined chloramines. The way to break them down is to increase the amount of Free chlorine in the water--and you do that by "shocking" the pool--increasing the chlorine to a higher level. I've personally done it many times and even my wife was astonished to learn it was true.

Not only that, those combined chloramines irritate your skin and your eyes--properly chlorinated water eliminates much of that. True cases of chlorine sensitivity are rare as hen's teeth!

So, welcome to our forum and to a brave new world!

[waterbear]

Hi there, this is my first post. We have decided to build a 13,000 gal in ground pool. We thought to use a salt-system, because I have heard that this is better for sensitive skin (which we all have), allthough I am aware that it "makes" chlorine from salt and is not a chlorine free system.

I have heard from a lot of people that they want to switch their pool to salt, however my pool-builder tells me that only about 10% of new pools have a saltwater system, all the others go with a standard chlorine system. What is everybody's opinion on salt?

Salt systems work well and have been around worldwide since the 60s. I have one on my own pool and couldn't be happier. However, there have been some cases (particularly in Texas) where local natural stone was used in pool construction that was damaged by the salt. IMHO, this is not the fault of the salt systems but, rather, of using materials that are NOT appropriate for pool construction.

Also another builder had suggested the Nature2 system. Looking at the Nature2 website it seems to be the way to go, sounds too good to be true. Where is the drawback?

first, it puts copper and silver in the water
second, replacement nature 2 cartridges will run about $200 a year (one every 6 months) and you still need to buy chlorine and all the other pool chemicals to balance your water
Did I mention that copper is what turns hair green and stains pools?
Third, you will not necessarily have sanitized water. Copper and silver have very slow kill times and .5 ppm free chlorine residual is not enough to ensure sanitized water, particularity with an outdoor pool that has stabilizer in it (as all outdoor pools must)

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=98
Please help, need to make a decision soon on what system to use.

Thanks a lot, Olaf (Location Central Texas)

Bottom line is this. There are only three EPA approved residual sanitizers for swimming pools--chlorine, bromine, and biguanide (PHMB). Of the three chlorine is the best choice for an outdoor pool. Bromine cannot be stabilized against loss from UV light and biguanide systems are very expensive, don't really provide sparkling clear water, and after a few years usually develop white water mold or pink slime (that can only really be cured by draining the pool and sterilizing everything with CHLORINE!)
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/forumdisplay.php?f=137

Ultimately only you can make a decision as to what you want to use in your pool but first you should read at least the two sections of the forum I linked to and get other peoples experiences so you don't repeat their mistakes.

[CarlD]

BTW, just to clarify: Bacquacil is a brand name for Biguanide.

As Evan says, it's the copper that turns blond hair green--not the chlorine.

If you really want a low chlorine system rather than a non-chlorine system, salt water chlorine generation is the way to go. It keeps SUCH a constant level of chlorine in the water that you don't need nearly as much. Plus it's great for keeping your pool clear if you go away.

Evan, correct me if I'm wrong, but bromine is really more appropriate for hot tubs, which don't see much UV and can have very intense bather loads--and frequently get emptied and refilled.

I have NO idea what biguanide is good for. It's only advantage over bromine that I'm aware of is it's easier to convert a biguanide pool to chlorine than a bromine pool.

[britinusa]

I have the Nature2 system, I disagree that it is too good to be true, Both My wife and son have blond hair and have never had any issues with green hair.
It does use metals to assist in sanitizing the pool, but I have not had any problems that people associate with that.
The cartridge costs $100 and mine last for 2 seasons, so it costs me about $50 per season, we use around 4 ozs of granular chlorine a week, plus you use a "spring" cartridge for the start up at the start of the season it costs about $24.
Always have sparkling clear water it is softer as the Nature2 does use minerals.
Most people will advice against it, but I am a fan of it and I don't have any issues with my water.
I am speaking from my own experience with the system and that fact that I do not have any problems with my water chemistry, green hair, algae or metal staining.

[oroepke1]

Thanks for the quick and detailed replies!

Just to make sure I don't misunderstand, can I combine a salt-water pool with Nature2 also? It seems most people advise against Nature2 but according to what Britinusa says it seems to work. Need to do some more reading I guess .....

Olaf

[britinusa]

Im mot sure if you can combine a salt system with the nature2.
Im sure more people will post and tell you not to get the nature2, that seems to be the case on most forums I am on, But it works well for me.

[aylad]

If you have the salt system, I'm not sure why you'd want the Nature2--the salt system will maintain adequate chlorine levels without it, so why go to the added expense of the extra cartridges and system? The salt also will will make the "feel" of the water softer, so the Nature2 won't help in that regard.

I don't have a Nature2 and have no practical experience with it, but I have been a mod on this forum for over 6 years and can tell you that we've had poster after poster come here after using the Nature2 systems for awhile for help with dealing with metals in the water. So before you decide to go that route, take some time and read through the metals forum so you know what you're in for once you get copper in you water, and THEN decide whether you want to go that route or not.

Janet

[waterbear]

I have the Nature2 system, I disagree that it is too good to be true, Both My wife and son have blond hair and have never had any issues with green hair.
It does use metals to assist in sanitizing the pool, but I have not had any problems that people associate with that.
The cartridge costs $100 and mine last for 2 seasons, so it costs me about $50 per season, we use around 4 ozs of granular chlorine a week, plus you use a "spring" cartridge for the start up at the start of the season it costs about $24.
Always have sparkling clear water it is softer as the Nature2 does use minerals.
Most people will advice against it, but I am a fan of it and I don't have any issues with my water.
I am speaking from my own experience with the system and that fact that I do not have any problems with my water chemistry, green hair, algae or metal staining.

Ok, you are not using the system the way the manufacturer says(and the manufacturer's directions is how the system got EPA approval!)...the carts are supposed to be replaced every 6 months. They don't last longer so you so not have sanitized water. The copper will keep the water clear since it prevents algae growth but it does not keep the water sanitized since the CT time for copper is much longer than for one of the three EPA approved sanitizers. If you are keeping the recommended .5 ppm FC in the water with an old cart your pool might not grow algae but it certainly is growing bacteria and viruses!

FWIW, I have sold both N2 and several brands of SWGs in the past and have helped many customers with both systems. I am not a fan of the N2 even though it was a GREAT profit generator for the store.

[waterbear]

Im mot sure if you can combine a salt system with the nature2.
Im sure more people will post and tell you not to get the nature2, that seems to be the case on most forums I am on, But it works well for me.

Actually you can. In fact, Zodiac sells a combo unit with an undersized (for the gallonage listed) SWG and a N2 unit. My recommendation is to stay away. a properly sized salt system will make the N2 superfluous! (And an added expense of $200/year for N2 carts!)

[CarlD]

BritinUSA:

I congratulate you: You are the first person I've come across who is happy with their Nature2 system! Seriously. Most hate it or have problems they didn't realize was related to it.

But I believe N2 recommends you change the cartridge every 6 months or every season, which ever it shorter. You are using yours for 2 seasons so you have ALREADY cut your costs in half by breaking "the rules" --not that you shouldn't--if you have been successful with 2 seasons per cart you've already gotten ahead of one of the objections to the N2 system.

How about posting your test numbers, along with your pool size and type (vinyl, concrete, in-ground or above ground)? It would be interesting to see what works with Nature2. Perhaps we'll be able to recommend ways for people to be successful with them. Currently we do NOT recommend Nature2 under any circumstances.