The Great Nature2 Debate

[waterbear]

BTW, just to clarify: Bacquacil is a brand name for Biguanide.

As Evan says, it's the copper that turns blond hair green--not the chlorine.

If you really want a low chlorine system rather than a non-chlorine system, salt water chlorine generation is the way to go. It keeps SUCH a constant level of chlorine in the water that you don't need nearly as much. Plus it's great for keeping your pool clear if you go away.

Evan, correct me if I'm wrong, but bromine is really more appropriate for hot tubs, which don't see much UV and can have very intense bather loads--and frequently get emptied and refilled.
Bromine is a bit easier to maintain at the higher temperatures of a hot tub without daily attention but really offers no advantages over chlorine. It is not a good choice for an outdoor pool.
I have NO idea what biguanide is good for. It's only advantage over bromine that I'm aware of is it's easier to convert a biguanide pool to chlorine than a bromine pool.

Actually, It's about the same difficulty to convert biganide to either chlorine or bromine and, in fact, it might be a bit easier to convert to bromine.
The only advantage I know of for biguande is that it allows those few individuals who have a TRUE (and medically determined) allergy to halogens (chlorine and bromine) to have a sanitized pool. Other than that it's disadvantages and costs outweigh any benefits, IMHO.

[waterbear]

BritinUSA:


But I believe N2 recommends you change the cartridge every 6 months or every season, which ever it shorter. You are using yours for 2 seasons so you have ALREADY cut your costs in half by breaking "the rules" --not that you shouldn't--if you have been successful with 2 seasons per cart you've already gotten ahead of one of the objections to the N2 system.

Carl,
by 'breaking the rules, they do not have sanitized water! Period. Remember the pool is oing to look clear because of the copper sulfate in the cart but the N2 also depends on silver nitrate. The reason the EPA approved these units is because they are replaced every 6 months of use. That is two carts a year (or one if the pool is closed for 6 months or longer). Once the cart is "activated" it does not have an indefinite shelf life.

[CarlD]

I stand corrected! And thank you! So...using the cart for 2 years means...what? How are they not running into the problems of not having the copper/silver killing algae the second season?

You got me backwards on the other post.

I said it's easier to convert biguanide to chlorine than bromine, meaning bromine is MUCH harder to convert to chlorine than biguanide, not from biguanide to bromine (who would do that????)

I KNEW there was a reason bromine worked better in hot tubs--I thought it was the bather load and the fact the few hot tubs are run in the sunshine.

[britinusa]

My test Numbers:
FC 1ppm
PH 7.5
TA 130
CYA 40

My pool is only open for the summer I close it in September and re-open in June.
This year I started with the cartridge that I put in last august and that will most likely last till this august.
So i replace them every 5 months of use.
It works for me as Im using less chlorine than i hear some people using.
Their website says that nothing effects the life of the cartridge, so I cant see an issue with removing it at the end of the season and re-using it in the the spring.


Above ground pool 6600 gallons
Hayward super pump
Hayward EC50 DE filter

[sturev]

Britinusa, how can you 'tell' that the cartridge from last season is 'working'? When I got my pool it came with a Nature2 system and I could never figure out if it was working or not... There was no 'test' that came with it to tell me what it was doing or not doing, so after a few months I just took it out and haven't bought any replacements (don't intend to either, after I found this place and learned that it was putting metals into my pool! ). I didn't have any problems with it (staining, green hair, etc), I just can't see how it could be a good thing to load up the water with copper and silver...

[sturev]

Never been in the China Shop before...

[PoolDoc]

I'm going to wait till I've found the current Nature2 sanitizer data, before I post.

I've figured out why -- I'm pretty sure -- BritinUSA is getting good results, but I'll save that for now.

I want to say clearly, I believe he is entirely sincere in making the claims he has. I just think there's a better explanation for his results, than Nature2

Meanwhile . . . ya'll be nice!

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[waterbear]

My test Numbers:
FC 1ppm
PH 7.5
TA 130
CYA 40

My pool is only open for the summer I close it in September and re-open in June.
This year I started with the cartridge that I put in last august and that will most likely last till this august.
So i replace them every 5 months of use.
It works for me as Im using less chlorine than i hear some people using.
Their website says that nothing effects the life of the cartridge, so I cant see an issue with removing it at the end of the season and re-using it in the the spring.


Above ground pool 6600 gallons
Hayward super pump
Hayward EC50 DE filter

According to the newest info on the Zodiac website the cartridge should be replaced every 6 months or 1 season, whichever is shorter. (which is what the cart instructions have said for the past several years) It says nothing about keeping a cart stored to use the next season.
http://www.nature2.com/files/TL2800_...ers_Manual.pdf

The 'spring cart' you use for startup is actually a lanthanum based phospahte remover in cart form. The price is a bit high for a phosphate remover since 2 liters of Natural Chemistry's PHOSfree is available for about $20-$25 and will treat between 20 and 40k gallons of water. House brand lanthanum phosphate removers are usually even less expensive.
Then again, there is no real need for phosphate removers if the chlorine is kept at proper levels, and the proper use of chlorine is much less expensive than using phosphate removers.

[CarlD]

Now I'm on pins and needles for Ben's explanation!

I do worry that BritinUSA is taking a risk with an FC of 1 and a CYA of 40. But I'm not a chemist or biologist so maybe I'm missing something.

BritinUSA--with that FC of 1 do you also have a CC of 0?

I like to think I'm open-minded so if there's an explanation that explains this experience I really want to know it so we can help others duplicate it.

[PoolDoc]

It's probably going to be Monday.

I've got to read thru Richard's replies, think about them, read thru some stuff online and so on.

Ben