Saltsystem? Nature2?

[oroepke1]

Hi there, this is my first post. We have decided to build a 13,000 gal in ground pool. We thought to use a salt-system, because I have heard that this is better for sensitive skin (which we all have), allthough I am aware that it "makes" chlorine from salt and is not a chlorine free system.

I have heard from a lot of people that they want to switch their pool to salt, however my pool-builder tells me that only about 10% of new pools have a saltwater system, all the others go with a standard chlorine system. What is everybody's opinion on salt?

Also another builder had suggested the Nature2 system. Looking at the Nature2 website it seems to be the way to go, sounds too good to be true. Where is the drawback?

Please help, need to make a decision soon on what system to use.

Thanks a lot, Olaf (Location Central Texas)

[PoolDoc]

Hey, Oroepke1;

Your question kinda got lost in the Nature2 debate, so I moved all that stuff to the China Shop.

Let me first ask (insist?) that posters to this thread NOT restart the Nature2 debate: it's in the China Shop. Please focus on Oroepke1's question.

Oroepke1, let me quickly add (before I trash Nature2!) that I don't think BritinUSA was trying to mislead you OR that he was misrepresenting the results he got. I spent the afternoon poking through the info he posted here, on PoolSpaForum and at TFP to figure out what was going on. I think I know now, and will cover that in the CS, but not here. But, I'm sure he believed what he posted, and was entirely sincere in his recommendation to you.

OK. Let me tell you what I know:

1. Salt (SWCG - Salt water chlorine generation) works. It's just a method of consistently delivering chlorine to your pool -- but it's a good one, as long as you get one of current units.

2. Salt DOES increase corrosion, a little. This is a problem with older heaters, some lights, and a few other things. But, pool water gets salty anyhow (from 'used up' chlorine), so it's not major difference.

3. SWCG DOES have a minor problem with rising pH levels. Somehow it tends to cause pH to go up, so in most pools you'll have to use some acid to counter that.

4. Because SWCG allows you to chlorinate CONSISTENTLY, problems with irritation and chloramines are reduced, compared to hand chlorinated pools.

5. Mildly salty water (such as you have in pools with SWCG) is LESS irritating to eyes and skin than 'fresh' water. This is not a function of SWCG; you could get the same results by adding salt to a conventionally chlorinated pool.

6. It's better to get an OVERSIZED SWCG unit, and run it less, than the other way round. The less a unit is "ON", the longer it will last.

7. Once you consider unit cost, unit maintenance cost, electricity, and salt, SWCG probably doesn't save money. But, over a 5 year period, it doesn't cost lots, either -- especially for large pools.

8. SWCG is a good way to chlorinate routinely -- but you still need bleach or cal hypo to SHOCK.


And about Nature2:

1. In the past, Nature2, Claritec and Fountainhead (various names / companies associated with the 'technology' have engaged in highly deceptive marketing, and made various bogus (Fountainhead) or meaningless (Nature2) claims for the units.

2. Last time I checked (4 years ago) Nature2 was avoiding some of the bogus claims, and had replaced them with meaningless -- but impressive sounding -- claims for the unit.

3. But some dealers are still using some of the old bogus claims. Here's an example I grabbed today from PoolCenter.com:

"The purifier precisely directs water flow through a six-month, replaceable cartridge. Inside, a non-electrical reaction "activates" oxygen by breaking the molecule into its nascent atoms, atomic oxygen - one of Earth's most powerful sanitizers, to kill bacteria, viruses and algae. As if that weren't enough, the Purifier also releases trace amounts of natural, algaestatic and bactericidal minerals into the pool to help prevent bacteria and algae growth."
http://www.poolcenter.com/natr2faq.htm

"Activated oxygen" is one of those chemically meaningless, but impressive sounding terms that's been associated for years with various brands of pool industry snake oil.

4. However, Nature2 is now making EPA sanitizer claims. Those are pretty strictly regulated, so I'm going to have to check them out. In the past, companies have done this by adding something (their MAGIC ingredient) to sufficient chlorine to pass EPA standards alone. They then have to do a sales pitch dance to claim that it's MAGIC + chlorine, rather than chlorine alone that does the trick, without legally making that claim.

5. BUT -- and this is a big BUT -- Nature2 is making Nature2 + MPS (Oxone, potassium monopersulfate) sanitizer claims. I'm going to have find and read these. I'm hoping Richard (Chem Geek) has them. However, until I do, I won't be able to reject Nature2 quite as wholeheartedly as I have in the past.

6. Finally, I have never -- to date -- encountered any valid (or even apparently valid) test evidence that Nature2 'works' in any sense important to a pool owner or user. BritinUSA's evidence is not what it seems (even to him) -- but you'll have to wade through the China Shop stuff for that.

7. BritinUSA is NOT following Nature2's recipe for sanitation. That requires 0.5 ppm FC at ALL times. In practice, you can't maintain 0.5 FC 24/7, without having it higher much of the time.
Nature2 manual attached - downloaded from http://www.nature2.com/files/TL2901_...ers_Manual.pdf 26Jun2010.

OK, that's what I know.

Now, to what I think. It's my opinion that Zodiac is determined to market Nature2 successfully, and that that determination is entirely independent of whether it actually works.

One thing to keep in mind: you can build your pool and operate perfectly successfully without either salt or Nature2. It's quite easy to arrange the piping and wiring to allow you to easily add one or both later.

Good luck!

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[oroepke1]

Thanks for the detailed answer! I found my other stuff in the China Shop. This is a great forum, I am glad I came here, surely will be back soon!

Olaf

[BigTallGuy]

Hi Olaf, I recently converted my AG pool to a Salt pool and I love it. It does take a slight amount of "getting used to" due to the slight salty taste. I have had mine for 2 full months now and I do not regret the expense at all. It is worth every penny. I went to a motel over the July 4th weekend and the minute I hit the water, my eyes started burning from the chlorine and the bleach smell almost took your breath away. I almost went to the front desk and gave them this website (LOL). I wouldn't trade my Salt pool for anything. With the exception of 1-2 cups of acid per week, it is almost maintenance free once you get your system set. Yes, your initial investment might be steep, but I'd do it again in a heart beat.

Good luck - BTDG