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Thread: Electrical Terminology & Safety Tips

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    Default Electrical Terminology & Safety Tips

    It goes without saying that water and electricity don’t mix. It can kill you. Here are a few tips and suggestions that may help you. But first, a Big Tall Dumb Guy Salute to Poconos for his invaluable assistance and contributions. Thanks Al.

    Electrical Contractors – If you need electrical work for your pool, whether you are installing a new circuit, repairing, or adding to an existing circuit, this kind of work is best left to professionals. Find an Electrical Contractor that is Licensed, Bonded and Insured. Check with the Registry of Contractors in the City, County, or State where you live. Check with the Better Business Bureau in your area. Many contractors will give you free estimates. Don’t be afraid to get multiple bids.

    Building Permits – Often a good idea. This may seem to be a huge inconvenience, as well as adding a little extra cost, but it beats a funeral every time. Getting a building permit will usually result in having a certified building inspector or a third party inspect the electrical work for Municipal and National Electrical Code compliance. Your Electrical Contractor will prepare the Permit Application and get the Permit for you. Don’t let them talk you out of it to save a few dollars. This is for your safety. You could have issues with your Homeowner’s Insurance if you didn’t get one.

    Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter or GFCI – This is a MUST! GFCI’s are quick reacting switches that are designed to kill the power when the slightest problem occurs in the circuit. Every outdoor circuit or any circuit near water is required to have ONE. More is not better here; never install two GFCI’s in the same circuit. They will fight each other and trip each other. These are available as individual outlets or as breakers that are installed inside the breaker panel.

    Circuit Breakers – Are electricity’s safety valve. They are rated by Amps. The size of the circuit breaker depends upon the size of the wire in the circuit. Specific wire sizes require specific breaker sizes. If you have a breaker that blows or trips, you have a problem. Never, never, never install the next size bigger Breaker to eliminate the problem.

    GFCI’s vs. Circuit Breakers (or Fuses) – Why do I need both? Circuit Breakers and fuses usually take a longer period of time to trip or to blow as they only break the circuit when overloaded. GFCI’s actually detect electrical leakage from the hot side of the circuit to the ground and will trip instantly before any damage or injury can occur (hopefully), as well as tripping when overloaded. A GFCI will trip and shut off the power, where a (non-GFCI) breaker or fuse might not trip at all under the same circumstances. If your GFCI trips, reset it, if it continues to trip, you have a problem in that circuit. Replacing a GFCI Outlet or GFCI breaker with a regular (non-GFCI) outlet or breaker can be deadly.

    Circuit length – As a general statement, the longer the run or circuit length, the more voltage drop at the end of the circuit. If you need a longer run, it is advisable to use a larger wire with the appropriate size breaker.

    Extension Cords – Everybody’s got ‘em. Extension Cords have ratings too. They are rated for indoor or outdoor use and according to the size of wire inside. Wire ratings are backwards, the larger the number, the smaller the wire. Common Extension Cord sizes are 16 gauge, 14 gauge, and 12 gauge. 12 gauge wire is larger than 14 gauge wire, which is larger than 16 gauge wire. A periodic inspection to make sure the outer insulation is not cut, nicked, or chewed on by animals is good. If you can see the wires inside of the outer insulation, you would be wise to replace the cord. Extension Cords are not rated to be buried in the ground. If you use an Extension Cord for your system, make sure it is rated for outdoor use and has the proper size wire for your needs. When in doubt, always opt for the bigger size wire. If the cord or plug feels hot during use, it may be too small for your application. Every plug should be a 3-prong type without exception. 2 prong plugs/cords should never be used as they are not grounded. 3-prong plugs with the ground lug cut off are a big no-no.

    Grounds and Grounding – Everything in and around your pool should be grounded, Pumps, Motors, Lights, SWCG’s, Control Units, EVERYTHING. Many pumps/motors, control units etc. have Grounding or Bonding Lugs on them so that you can ground the frame of each component back to the electrical circuit. If your system is not grounded in this fashion, you should consider doing it or having it done.

    Many general, specific, or actual electrical questions regarding electrical work, code compliance and local requirements can be answered by calling your Municipal Code Compliance Office, the Building Permit office, or even your Power Company. Feel free to use these people as a resource. They are usually always glad to help and it is free.
    Last edited by PoolDoc; 06-15-2018 at 08:54 AM.
    If you can afford a swimming pool and computer, you can probably afford to help keep the PoolForum alive. Please be a responsible member and subscribe today. You'll probably save more than the membership fee on your first trip to the pool store. BTG

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    sturev's Avatar
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    Question Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    Thanks BTDG & Poconos!

    What's the deal with bonding? I'm not sure I understand the significance of that and I certainly don't understand reasoning (if that's different than significance )...
    Evan S.

    AG FastLane Pool, 9x13 ~ 3,000 gal, COVERED/INSULATED 23X7, 30 gpm water pump (runs 12 hrs a day) AND a Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 hp Pump (only used on occasion for the pool sweep), Hayward 100K BTU Heater, Waterway Flo-Pro Skim Filter & Slime Bag, no other filters

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    Poconos is offline SuperMod Emeritus Whizbang Spinner Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars
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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    The bonding or grounding issue is tying all the grounds together so you cannot have a voltage difference between different devices. You cannot rely on a ground rod driven into the earth at each device because the earthen ground may have a high resistance depending on the dampness and surface area of the ground rod or plate itself. Everything should be tied together with a copper ground wire. It's interesting in densely populated areas to take an AC voltmeter and stick one of the probes into the ground and the other some distance away like 100' or so. Not unusual to read several volts. Another interesting exercise is to take a clamp-on ampmeter and measure the currents in the ground wire on any power pole that has a transformer on it. You'll read something. In a perfectly load balanced electrical system you should see nothing. I've babbled enough.

    Hope this explains it better. We'll keep modifying the original post as we find the need to clarify or change things.
    Al
    16'x32' oval 22K gal IG vinyl pool; ; Hayward S244T sand filter; Hayward superpump 1 HP pump; hrs; K-2006; PF:5.5

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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    Have you heard of bonding non electrical components? I have a hydralic pump in my pool (counter current swim machine), and while there's no power to it, they wanted it bonded to the metal frame of the pool, and then they wanted the pool frame bonded to all the other componets (pump, heater, etc)... There's even a stainless steel handle on the swim machine (it's attached to plastic, not touching any other metal), and they wanted that bonded to the rest of the system...? BTW, the hydralic lines are rubber of course... Any thoughts on that?
    Evan S.

    AG FastLane Pool, 9x13 ~ 3,000 gal, COVERED/INSULATED 23X7, 30 gpm water pump (runs 12 hrs a day) AND a Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5 hp Pump (only used on occasion for the pool sweep), Hayward 100K BTU Heater, Waterway Flo-Pro Skim Filter & Slime Bag, no other filters

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    Poconos is offline SuperMod Emeritus Whizbang Spinner Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars Poconos 4 stars
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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    I'm one that believes in common sense and have trouble with some codes. Just ask CarlD. Can't say I ever dug into grounding codes and initially it may not make sense to tie non-electrical components together but......considering pool water is a conductor of electricity and it doesn't take much current to zap somebody and pool water is in contact with electrical components somewhere in the system, maybe it does make sense. I can't say one way or another.
    Al
    16'x32' oval 22K gal IG vinyl pool; ; Hayward S244T sand filter; Hayward superpump 1 HP pump; hrs; K-2006; PF:5.5

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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    In my town EVERYTHING metal must be bonded--unless it's not attached, like a solar reel.

    But my ladder, my drop-in steps handrails, the pool structure, cross members ALL had to be bonded, as well as, of course, the pump.

    Codes don't always make sense but they always must be obeyed to the inspector's satisfaction (!).

    Insurance companies won't pay a claim if you needed a building permit and didn't get one. It's as simple as that. If you have an "outlaw" pool and someone gets hurt, Ol' Indemnity Plus will let you swing in the breeze.
    Carl

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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    The main idea is to ground all the various components of your pool together with copper wires. You can use Bare or insulated wires, and somewhere there could be a code dictating a wire size, but in my mind, all these grounding wires need to be grounded directly to the GFCI ground wire or the (Green) Grounding screw. Twist them together, use wire nuts, crimp them together, even solder them, but the "Final Run" goes back to the GFCI.
    Last edited by BigTallGuy; 06-19-2010 at 12:40 AM.
    If you can afford a swimming pool and computer, you can probably afford to help keep the PoolForum alive. Please be a responsible member and subscribe today. You'll probably save more than the membership fee on your first trip to the pool store. BTG

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    Ohm_Boy is offline Registered+ Thread Analyst Ohm_Boy 0
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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    Bonding and grounding are often confusing subjects, and are not the same.

    Bonding refers to connecting items together. All metal objects which can come into contact with pool water should be bonded together. This prevents any one of them from becoming a different potential from any other, from whatever influence, direct electrical contact, induced current, chemical, etc. This bonding prevents any current flow through the water itself, thereby protecting the occupants.

    Grounding, on the other hand, indicates a connection of one or more components to the service ground, equipment ground, ground rod, or other ground-potential reference point. Technically, there should only be one ground reference in an electrical installation, and that is most often at the service feed point. Everything else which is to be grounded should tie directly to that point with minimum resistance.

    Technically, in a grounded system, bonding is simply a means of connecting the ground wires to everything. In an ungrounded system, a bond wire just connects it all.

    There is also much debate over whether or not a bonded pool grid is to be grounded, and as I understand it, there are differing local code requirements as well. Some say ground, some say isolate. I'm personally a "ground it" fan.

    As an aside, the GFCI protected circuit does not need a ground connection to the GFCI to be protected. GFCI devices are designed to measure differential currents between the hot and neutral conductors, and open the circuit if that difference exceeds the trigger, around 5 milliamps. It is assumed that any difference in current is being diverted out-of-circuit by a body somewhere. Naturally, a ground is required by the circuit according to code, but it is not necessary for the GFCI feature to function.

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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohm_Boy View Post
    As an aside, the GFCI protected circuit does not need a ground connection to the GFCI to be protected. GFCI devices are designed to measure differential currents between the hot and neutral conductors, and open the circuit if that difference exceeds the trigger, around 5 milliamps. It is assumed that any difference in current is being diverted out-of-circuit by a body somewhere. Naturally, a ground is required by the circuit according to code, but it is not necessary for the GFCI feature to function.
    O.K. I bonded My pump motor and SWCG control unit together and ran the Bonding wire to the ground of the GFCI, if current from any source (say a bad extension cord as a bad example) was to somehow enter the Bonding/Grounding wire wouldn't that trip the GFCI? Or Does the GFCI only measure the currents between its own conductors?
    If you can afford a swimming pool and computer, you can probably afford to help keep the PoolForum alive. Please be a responsible member and subscribe today. You'll probably save more than the membership fee on your first trip to the pool store. BTG

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    Default Re: Electrical Safety Tips

    Just wanted to jump in here, because this is a critical subject, and some of the answers may not stand out to people.

    1. Bonding and GFCI's protect people,
    not equipment.

    2. Breakers and fuses protect equipment.
    People not so much, except indirectly by preventing fires.

    3. Licensed electricians are better than unlicensed ones . . . usually,
    but in my experience, many licensed electricians, and some inspectors, are clueless around pools.

    4. To fully protect people, you should BOND every fixed piece of metal a wet swimmer could touch.
    (Codes may require more or less than this. You should obey electrical codes, too. At least, most of the time. Or if you are going to be inspected. )

    5. Codes sometimes allow discontinuous bonding via the rebar mat. This is NOT a good idea.
    Sometimes what was a continuous electrical connection in the mat becomes discontinuous. Use a full length bare copper wire, from start to finish.

    6. Codes sometimes allow conduit grounding. This is another bad idea, around pools.
    Conduits get disconnected: been there, got the shock, cussed out the electrician. Fortunately, did not die! Use a continuous wire ground around pools.

    7. All bonding mats are "grounded" intrinsically.
    But, if you ground to the box, you can get currents going. I don't like unplanned currents around pools. So, if you 'ground' your bond wires to the box, use a BIG wire for the bond and a SMALLER one for the ground-to-the-box connection. There are obscure electrical reasons for doing this. By the way, if your pump is correctly wired AND bonded, your bonding system will ALWAYS be connected to your ground system. (Unless you are using conduit grounding -- see below.)

    8. Grounding your 'bond' system to your box or panel can prevent weird corrosion issues.
    Again, not gonna explain this. But it's much better to prevent these sorts of issues than figure them out.

    9. Make FRICKING sure that you have a CONTINUOUS wire ground from your local wire panel back to your main distribution panel.
    Code may not require this, but you should. Again, got the shocks on this one. No, I do NOT like conduit grounds. Ever. Except maybe in the dry desert. Not near pools. Not in wet restaurant kitchens (where I got fried, while working as a plumber.) Maybe where nothing but camels and horny toads live. Or, maybe not even there.

    10. Shocks and wet people who want to keep living don't go together.
    Electricity can usually find an easier path to follow, than through a dry person with shoes on. Electricity can usually NOT find an easier path to follow than a wet nearly naked person. You have to work specially hard around pools to make sure that the easiest path is not through you, your family or friends!

    11. Think about the drips!
    And, I don't mean the jerks who become your close friend right about the time your pool is being finished. I've seen a lifeguard get a bad shock because they 'dripped' into a GFCI protected receptacle that was mounted horizontally, rather than vertically.

    12. Speaking of GFCI's, they fail around pools. A lot.
    Sometimes they fail 'safe' tripping every time you look at them. Sometimes, they fail 'DANGEROUS', and won't trip when you try to weld your extension cord to your pool ladder. (Or, when a lifeguard drips into the receptacle!) Check yours today, and several times each season. There's a GOOD reason for that little red or yellow button on your GFCI.

    13. Do not bring electricity into the pool area from outside the pool area.
    OK, I confess. I'm the idiot who did this, with an extension cord. All those electrical safeties in your pool area don't mean squat if you drag electricity in from elsewhere. Not one of my brighter moments. Pay for a 20A receptacle off the pool panel, when you do the pool.

    14. Electrical boxes should not be closer than 12" to the dirt. Ever. No matter what the code allows. When you put electrical boxes in the dirt, or even that close to the dirt, they WILL get wet and dirty. Probably not while there is still a warranty on the work, but soon after. Every SINGLE 'sealed' commercial pool light junction box I've ever opened was full of water. In fact, "sealed" electrical boxes seem to be much better at keeping water in, than at keeping it out.

    Hm-m-mh, that's all that comes to mind, right now.

    Ben
    "PoolDoc"
    Last edited by PoolDoc; 06-29-2010 at 08:15 AM. Reason: Thought of some more points to add. This is getting long.

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