pool store ethics?

[henssguitars]

Hi there, new to the forum.
I am a bit embarassed to admit that I am a baquacil user, worked great the first year, nothing but problems so far this season.
I will be converting soon.
I have a 24 round above ground pool with a deep end (15000 gal ) , and have been fighting algae and cloudy water for the last three weeks. after spending $600 on baquacil products - and floc my water was about 90% clear this morning.
I took a sample to be tested that indicated TA - 0 after adding 25 lbs of alkalinity increase this week,
also my calcium hardness - 46 after adding 20 lbs of calcium hardness increaser this week, ph - 7.2
my pinpoint analysis recomended adding 26 lbs of alkalinity increase, and 25 lbs of calcium hardness increaser both divided into three applications.
So I did just that, and five minutes later I have a giant bowl of milk!
would have been nice if the pool store would have told me not to add these two chemicals on the same day!
So I guess my question is, does anybody have experience with this sort of thing, and how long does this ussually take to clear up?

Thanks for your help

[CarlD]

Hi there, new to the forum.
I am a bit embarassed to admit that I am a baquacil user, worked great the first year, nothing but problems so far this season.
I will be converting soon.
I have a 24 round above ground pool with a deep end (15000 gal ) , and have been fighting algae and cloudy water for the last three weeks. after spending $600 on baquacil products - and floc my water was about 90% clear this morning.
I took a sample to be tested that indicated TA - 0 after adding 25 lbs of alkalinity increase this week,
also my calcium hardness - 46 after adding 20 lbs of calcium hardness increaser this week, ph - 7.2
my pinpoint analysis recomended adding 26 lbs of alkalinity increase, and 25 lbs of calcium hardness increaser both divided into three applications.
So I did just that, and five minutes later I have a giant bowl of milk!
would have been nice if the pool store would have told me not to add these two chemicals on the same day!
So I guess my question is, does anybody have experience with this sort of thing, and how long does this ussually take to clear up?

Thanks for your help

Oh, No! You have been "Pool Stored"! None of those chemicals will address your problems and will just make it worse. But we can help. Before I begin, please understand that you are not at fault. You are a VICTIM! If I seem to criticize, please don't take it personally. It is not directed at you. It just infuriates me and many others here whenever a new victim comes to us, upset, hurting, and out a lot of wasted money.

First of: NEVER add a calcium increaser again. Calcium is solely for concrete or plaster pools, to protect the calcium in the mortar and plaster. You have a vinyl pool. At best the calcium does nothing and empties your wallet. At worst it turns your water cloudy and contributes to scaling. Pool stores sell unsuspecting victims calcium all the time.

Second: Total Alkalinity increase is nothing but baking soda, NO MATTER WHAT THEY TELL YOU! It's the same chemical Arm&Hammer sells in the orange box. Plus, when fighting an algae bloom it is NOT going to help. Combine THAT with lots of calcium and...VOILA! A milky pool.

Next they will try to sell you a phosphate remover--that's their latest scam. It won't help.

Fourth: You have two choices. You fight algae with Baq products and I don't have much expertise on that, or you can begin the conversion to chlorine now (Might as well--your pool's already in a bad state) which will make your pool look WORSE for a while.

Fifth: Go back to the pool store and get them to re-test your water. Don't buy anything, but say something like "I want to see what progress I'm making" or some such. Do not take their recommendations--they have already shown they sell you what they think they can con you into buying.

Sixth: Insist they give you the following results:

Level of Baq in the water (Should be equivalent to Free Chlorine and Combined Chlorine--somebody who knows Baq can lay that out)

pH

Total Alkalinity (now very high)

Total or Calcium Hardness (also very high)

Stabilizer (if such a thing is used in Baq).

Seventh: Get your own test kit. If you are converting you will need it, and when you are done it will be worth every penny. We recommend either the Taylor Technologies K-2006 or K-2006C, or from Leslies on-line the FAS-DPD Service Test Kit (same as the K-2006). There are other FAS-DPD test kits available on-line, but not too many. You can't find them in pool stores. This kit will repay you many, many times over.

Eigth: In this section, read up on PHMB conversions. It's going to take lots and lots of chlorine. Depending on where you live, it may be easiest to use bleach--unscented, regular bleach, either normal (5.25%) or ultra (6%). Some pool stores sell 12% Liquid Chlorine, sometimes labeled "Liquid Shock"--if it costs more than double the 6%, don't buy it. Many sell 5 gallon blue carboys of the stuff. If they do, you can use it but be sure to buy a re-usable nozzle for--about $4. You will use a LOT of chlorine!

Ninth: We are here to help. Your pool store is clearly out to separate you from your money and will NOT help. They will never recommend simple, clear steps, but it will always be some other wonder chemical--that won't work.

Tenth and last: You will need one final, crucial ingredient: P.O.P.P. This stands for Pool Owner Patience and Persistence.

[aylad]

Two of the cheapest online sites I have found for the Taylor kit are http://www.amatoind.com and http://www.spspools-spas.com. I've never ordered from the first one, but I've ordered lots of times from the second one and never had a problem.

Welcome to the forum!! Guess you've seen by now that "pool store" and "ethics" is kind of an oxymoron, most of the time--there are a few honest, ethical ones out there, but they're hard to time sometimes. We can help you fix the pool, but Carl has laid out the steps and what it'll take to get there. Let us know when you're ready!

Janet

[Watermom]

And, there are probably pool stores who aren't deliberately being dishonest, but they just don't really know about pool chemistry. Usually hiring people to work there who have no knowledge about pools.

[henssguitars]

thanks so much for the help!
I just had a heated arguement over the phone with the pool store, and ended up "firing" them to put it politely.
They told me that the issue is completely my fault, after following every instruction they gave me to the T! - not very good buisness in my eyes.
So I have severed my ties with them,(probabally banned from the store ) the only problem is that they are the only store in my area capable of accurate baquacill testing, so I can only test with strips now.
I put a call into a private pool guy that I know and trust to help me with converting asap, and hope to hear from him soon.
I will certainly order or pick up a chlorine test kit, and start the conversion soon.
I am glad to have found this forum, and realize I am not alone.
Any tips or tricks on the conversion would be muc appreciated.

[henssguitars]

Hi Janet, this is a little embarasing, but the second link you provided for the test kit is the exact store I just fired! (small world)

[Watermom]

Have you read through some of the older threads where people have shared their experience with the conversion process? I vote to go ahead and start the conversion. That way you don't need any more baq products. Plus, you are gonna be so glad you did it once you get it completed. Go ahead and start. It isn't hard, just takes persistence. Besides, it will make your pool all kinds of pretty shades of green! but after it is over, your water is gonna sparkle!

[aylad]

Hi Janet, this is a little embarasing, but the second link you provided for the test kit is the exact store I just fired! (small world)

Wow, sure is!! I order almost all of my test kit reagents from them, have used them for a few years, and have never had a problem with them. In fact, when I screwed up on an online order a few months ago and called them, they fixed it over the phone. However, I've never asked them for advice--I just order what I need. Sorry to hear you had that experience with them...

Janet

[henssguitars]

ok enough screwing around, I am headed to my local leslies store to pick up liquid cl and a test kit, any idea on amount of liquid cl i should pick up to have on hand?
lots I'm sure!
I am sure there is a good bit of baq products still in the pool.
I have been checking out other conversion threads, but I just don"t want to do anything wrong, I feel like I have allready wasted lots of time and money and don't want to take any more steps backwards.

Thanks for your help,

Bill