New Pool Owner With High Iron

[labdi01]

I posted in another section before I saw this one, so forgive me for the double-post. First, I want to let you all know how much you've all taught me in the week that I've been studying the site! I hope you can shed some hope on my situation as well.

I purchased a house with a 24' above ground pool, with a Waterway 1 hp pump and sand filter.

I paid someone to come open the pool and show me how to work everything. When we opened the pool there was 1.5' of (clear) water, and was advised to fill by my hose (well water) - after 3 days, the lady came back and got the pump/filter working and the first thing she did was shock - and I ended up with poop soup!

I took a sample to the pool store and I was first advised to use 2 bottles of Pool Magnet and Sparkle Up. After 36 hours, very little color change (they also had me use Balance 100 and Ph Up for balancing the chemistry), so I called the pool store and they recommended 3 more bottles of Pool Magnet (because my iron 'was at a 3'). That was Friday. I added that and continued to filter 24/7 (had some trouble with Pool Magnet mucking up the filter). Saturday I found a Slime Bag and hooked that to the discharge hose from the filter and laid it in the pool.

Sunday, I took another sample to the pool store, who said chemically I was where I needed to be (except for chlorine and CYA since those had to be low because of the Pool Magnet) and I was advised to shock. I was too scared of seeing that brown again - because my iron was still at a 2 (not sure what their scale is). So I decided instead to use an algaecide and a bottle of Iron Away and continue to filter. I took the Slime Bag off on Monday, fearing lack of circulation in the pool.

Today is Tuesday and I checked my levels this am using a strip test (sorry - was told these were adequate, and didn't realize til I found you - which was obviously too late on so many levels - that they're not). The strip test showed my Ph was high, so I put a squirt of Muratic acid (leftover from previous owner) - probably a cup or 2. Tested 2 hrs later and it was better and everything else looked good (again, except for CYA and Cl).

So, I have seen progress, I just need to know if I'm ready to proceed somehow. Since last Wed, we went from a lovely shade of opaque cesspool to Tue a lovely clear-ish shade of green. Does that color just mean I need to shock or that I have more metals in there still?

Should I put DE in my filter to help things along (Out of Sparkle Up)? And is Pool Magnet a chelator or a sequestrant and once these metals are inactive, can I shock? And do I have to invest in truckloads of Pool Magnet for the rest of the season to stay clear (if I ever get clear)?

Do I just wait to add chlorine and cya until my metal levels are 0? Sorry for all the questions...

[aylad]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!!

My first suggestion is that you post a complete set of numbers, including FC and either TC or CC; pH, TA, CYA, and metals. You can get those printed out from the pool store. They will help us give you good, useable, accurate advice. However, STOP buying the stuff they're selling you! Throwing stuff at the pool is going to make your situation worse, instead of better. In the meantime, if you can get a good drop-based kit and do your own testing, it will save you hundreds in money, time, and aggravation. The Taylor K-2006 is the one we recommend, and can be ordered online several places but the best two prices I've seen are at http://www.amatoind.com or at http://www.spspools-spas.com. WalMart sells a 6-way drop-based kit for about $15 that can be used in the meantime, but with iron in your water, you're gonna have to be very careful about not getting lazy and keeping your chems in check.

The really simple answer to your question is that the metals in the water are going to have to be "bound" by a sequestrant for the lifetime of your pool. The metals don't filter out; rather, it's a matter of keeping them in solution in the water to keep them from "dropping out" and causing staining. This is going to require re-applications of a sequestrant on a regular basis, and is also going to require tight control over your Chlorine and pH levels to keep your pool from staining.

Marie (mbar) is our resident metals and stains expert, and I'm sure she'll be along soon to give you specific answers to your questions, but in the meantime I'd like to encourage you to take some time and read some of the threads in the metals forum to get an idea of what you're dealing with in terms of maintenance. Also, take a look at this thread where Marie talks about Ascorbic acid treatments to remove staining. Although this doesn't directly apply to you at this particular time, the latter part of the post does discuss pool water maintenance with metals and may help you understand what's required to keep it looking good.

Janet

[labdi01]

Thank you so much for replying!

Since my last post, I took a sample of water to the pool store. CYA and CL are 0 because I had to keep them out while using the Pool Magnet/Iron Away (sequestrants or chelators - not positive which). My PH was 7.3 and he said everything else was 'in check'. My iron was at 0.5 (and I was so excited)! He suggested I shock. I took a bucket of water from the pool and added (probably too much) shock - it's cloudy white right now and I won't shock the pool if it remains that way over the next hour. I'd rather lose a bucket of pool water rather than start from scratch and adding another $120 of Pool Magnet because I shocked the pool before it's ready.

He also told me once my iron was inactive completely, I wouldn't have to maintain with Pool Magnet (but I'm learning through this forum that pool stores can't be trusted) - unless I add more iron-laden water - but I learned my lesson (as usual, the hard way) and bought a prefilter.

[aylad]

Shocking the bucket full of water was good thinking--but what did you shock it with? Keep in mind that "shock" is a verb, meaning to raise your chlorine level, instead of a noun, i.e.a particular product. Many stores package either dichlor or cal-hypo and call it "shock", which really confuses people. IF it was cal-hypo you used, it's famous for not dissolving very quickly and can cause milky water problems, especially if you use too much.

Good idea on the prefilter, too........

The words "in check" from any pool store personnel are worthless--you need solid numbers. If they can't give them to you, then you SURELY don't want to take their advice!! You really need a number for alkalinity..........

Janet

[labdi01]

Hi Janet

Thank you again for checking on me. It' only been a week, but we're so disheartened by what we hoped would bring us big smiles and great fun. We're almost ready to use it as a planter.

Unfortunately, I found you guys after I had been steered in several wrong directions.

I used 1/4 lb (oops) of cal-hypo in a kitty-litter bucket full of pool water. I did see some brown-ish color change and held off on shocking the pool. This am, there's tons of white sediment in the bucket (shock?) and its still very cloudy and when I stir things up - that subtle brown shows through.

Based on some old posts, I put a filter sock on and a Tri-chlor tab in the filter basket, hoping to 'catch' any fallen metals and put them in the filter rather than the pool (hope I understood the science behind that).

Think I should try a bucket of pool water and bleach (couldn't find a calculator to translate pool gallons vs bleach)?

Should I lower my Ph a little, too (it was 7.3 yesterday)?

I'm going to go to Walmart and look for the drop test you suggested and get some HTH metal remover (forget the actual name). A regular poster had recommended it because it's much cheaper than Pool Magnet, and I got the impression it does the same thing.

I really should have paid closer attention in chemistry class!

Part of me is determined to beat this thing and at the same time the other part is ready to drain the sucker and never look back.

[Watermom]

Yes, try the bleach/bucket thing. I think pH at 7.3 is OK, but if one of the metal experts reads this they can correct me if they think you should lower it a little more.

Yes to paying attention in chemistry class ---- (can you tell that I am a teacher!)

And a big NO, NO, NO, to draining the pool and never looking back!

You're gonna get this thing straightened out and will soon be enjoying this pool. And besides, who needs another planter??!!

Good luck.

[labdi01]

Hi Watermom and thanks for you help - I need all I can get!

Used a drop-test kit this am. My Walmart didn't have one - I'm in the sticks - but I found one. Ph was in the toilet this am 6.8 or lower (tri-chlor tab from last night - or natural?) and my Alk was sky-high - above 225.

I went to Walmart and a couple other places and got bleach (5 gals) and baking soda and Borax - could only find one small box. I also found poly-algaecide - which I want to do again because I have no cl/cya in yet and I got 2 more quarts of sequestrant that I'm going to toss in and circulate (or should I filter)?

Any idea how much BBB I need at this point (will do the bleach in a bucket first - 1 cup)?

[aylad]

Your pH drop was more than likely just the trichlor. Take it out, and get some Borax in the pool to get the pH back up. This is a priority, since pH below 7.0 can damage your pool, and if your test reads 6.8, it could actually be lower. I'd start with about 3 cups added slowly through the skimmer, breaking up the clumps as you go. Wait 1-2 hours and test again, adding more as necessary. Stop at 7.2-7.4. One of the keys to dealing with metals in the water is to keep the pH on the very low side, but not less than 7.0.

You're obviously not going to need the baking soda this year--it's used to raise alk, and yours is high enough already!

and yes, try about 1 cup of bleach in the bucket of water and check to see if you see staining. If you do, then make sure your pH is at 7.0-7.2, then add more sequestrant until you see the stain lift. AT that point, you should be able to slowly raise your Cl. (Reference the latter part of Marie's post in this link http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=7923

Janet

[labdi01]

Thank you so much for all your time and attention!

I had some leftover PH Up in the shed, so I tossed some of that in and changed the pump/filter to circulate.

Pool looks a little hazier today, I'm nervous about a bloom - can/how should I algaecide (used as a verb)?

Also, should I toss more sequestrant in because my iron level last night was 0.5?

I have water and bleach in a bucket (it's 6% bleach) - how long would it take to know if metals are still present? I saw some slight yellowing initially, but the bleach is the $1.50 special and is extremely yellow. ;oP

So, the alk level is not a concern?

[aylad]

With no chlorine and no algaecide, you're probably on the edge of a bloom--if the algaecide you have is Polyquat 60, then I would go ahead and add it, leaving your filter on recirculate.

Regarding the sequestrant, I'm not really comfortable advising you whether or add more or not, or what the effect of the alk is, since this isn't really my area of experience. I do know that the more sequestrant you add, the more chlorine it's going to take to get up to baseline levels when you start raising it--but I'm not sure how much is enough. I've asked Marie to come take a look at this thread. Hopefully she will
be by soon and I'm sure that she can answer more fully for you.

I would think that the metal staining would show up fairly immediately. In the worst case, I guess you could always bring the chlorine up and deal with the stains if they show, but it's an expensive venture and I'd hate to put you through that unnecessarily.

I'm sorry I can't be more help, but I don't have any experience with metals, other than what I've learned from Marie!

Janet