can't backwash or waste

[dalejanus]

Well, it's pool opening weekend in NE Ohio. We have a 24ft above ground.

This spring we had a drain line(french drain) put in our backyard because the yard was always low and became a big pond every time it rained (or we backwashed). We had an additional sewer opening put right next to the pool.

We did really good getting the cover off, and the pool water was clear. It had the usual junk on the bottom, leaves and other stuff.


We filled the pool so we could vacuum to waste and we were doing good until we drained so much water it got below the skimmer. So we refilled and came back the next day.

The first day, we cut a short section of the waste hose, stuck in the new drain in the ground and the drain worked great, just like it was supposed to.

When we tried it the next day, the pump would not kick in when on waste. It would try to run, but the sound was different and we could tell it was not moving water. It eventually blew the fuse.

I took the filter valve apart (Hayward 711 13), pulled the gasket and went to the pool store. The pool guy noticed my handle was on backwards and said it wouldn't work right. I explained the previous owner had re-assembled it that way and it worked just fine. He said my gasket was fine but I should super glue it in place, and if I need to replace it scrape it out. ( I also notice lots of people buying lots of chemicals, but I held my tongue)

Anyway, I put the valve back together(no superglue) and still could not backwash or vacuum to waste. But I discovered that if the short waste hose came out of the new underground drain line, it worked, flapping around and spraying water everywhere. I concluded that it must have folded over and could not fold while in the underground drain.

So, I decided to build a solid drain pipe out of 1 1/2 inch PVC. 3 hours and some choice words later, I had a nice solid drain line. It came out of the filter about 3 inches, right angle down about 24 inches, right angle across about 31 inches, right angle down into the underground drain about 3 inches, then right angle inside the drain about 12 inches.

But when I tried it, I got the same result, the pump would not move the water and if I left it on, it blew the fuse. It works fine when on filter, but not on backwash or waste.

I figured I had too many sharp right angles, so I started cutting my beautiful creation apart. No matter what, the pump would not work on waste or backwash. So I took everything off and put the original fitting back on with the flexible drain hose out to the middle of my yard and it still would not work. The pump is trying, but won't kick in.

I took the valve apart once again, and I can't see anything wrong. The hayward valve is pretty simple. I can't figure out how it works ok for filter but not for waste or backwash.

I have a pea green pool that I can only filter. The only thing I can think of is buy a new filter. (this one is probably 15 years old). The motor/pump is probably 5 years old, but we had the motor repaired the 2nd or 3rd year.

Help!

---Dale

[Poconos]

Hi Dale,
Something doesn't make sense. You don't say what the pressure gauge is reading in these various phases of working and not working. The number of right angles won't cause your problem. They will add some flow resistance but not enough to even be noticed. Blowing the fuse is strange. With a totally blocked flow the pump will usually draw slightly LESS current than when it is pumping. Sounds strange but if anyone doesn't believe it, put a clamp-on ampmeter on the line and see for yourself. The reason is you're not moving water. Pressure is high but no work is being done. This is true of most centrifugal pool pumps. So, with a total block, you shouldn't blow a fuse. It almost sounds like the pump doesn't start all the time. THAT would blow a fuse. So, check the pressure gauge and see if the pump actually runs when the problem occurs. Get back to us and we'll pursue this further.
Al

[Pool Clown]

Is it possible that when the prev owner reassembled the dial valve, that he didn't get the proper alignment between the handle and the valve block? Have you tried another handle position and see what happens?

[dalejanus]

I can't check the pressure, the gauge is not working. I replaced it a few years ago, but I never look at it so I don't know when it quit working. If the pool stores were open today, I'd get one. I guess I'll order one online today.

Water seems to be moving through the filter. When I put it on waste, even with the pump off, water comes out the waste drain.

When I have it on filter, I can turn the pump on and off over and over. It takes maybe 1 or 2 seconds to get running normally. I works just like it is supposed to.

But on waste or backwash, it it like the pump is trying to start or partially staring. I can see some water moving through the drain line, but at greatly reduced capacity.

I would replace the pump and motor but it works ok with filter, just no backwash/waste. So I am confused.


Pool Clown:
The handle has been this way for 5 years and has always worked. It worked ok on waste the first day this year. Are you saying I should move it halfway between filter and waste and see what happens? or try rinse instead of backwash?

[dalejanus]

Update:
This morning we again tried backwash and waste, same result. The pump is straining, and I keep shutting off after a few seconds to avoid blowing the fuse (uhh, actually popping the breaker, which is in the basement, etc etc).

On filter, the pump starts normally in under 1/2 second.
I did try halfway between filer and waste, no luck.


I ran a complete check and TOOK NOTES!

My filter has, clockwise
Filter
Waste
Closed
Backwash
Recirculate
Rinse

The pump works ok on
Filter
Closed
Recirculate



But the good news is the pools went from pea green to sea foam green. We could see a dark clump on the bottom and got a bunch of leaves out.

Then I tried backwash one more time and it worked! I ran it until the water looked clear. Of course, nothing is connected to my fancy new french drain, so my yard is full of water again. (the drain should clear it in an hour or two)

So we are bleaching away and vacuuming the bottom.

I am starting to suspect the valve. Maybe I should replace the whole filter, it's at least 15years old.

[Pool Clown]

I agree with Al. Something is not right. There are two ways to put the handle on the valve. The right way, and 180 off. One thing that is strange is that you say you can get flow when the valve is in close position. You're not supposed to be able to do that.

Just to be on the same page with you, when you are in filter, what port is the handle over?

[dalejanus]

The handle is 180 off,

I meant to say the pump does not sound funny and blow the fuse on filter,closed and recirculate. I did not stick my hand in front of the return to see if any water was moving when it was on closed.

I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

[Poconos]

Yeah, you need a pressure gauge. Will tell a lot. Also, NEVER run the pump with the handle between positions. Good chance you will destroy the spider gasket. If any spoke is loose the flow may lift it out of the channel then when you move to one of the positions....squash. Yes, not unusual for water to drain out the waste line with the pump off on an AG pool. Gravity and siphoning.
Al