Frustrated

[aylad]

When you added the Fiber Clear to your pool, how did you add it?

Janet

[staclear]

I had added 2 lbs on Thursday night to the skimmer.

[PoolDoc]

Hi All; Staclear;

One of the questions I've been asked hundreds of times over the years is, "How fast will this clear up?". (or turn blue, or what not). I was asked this on Friday PM, a week ago, by the general manager of the area's largest country club as we stood looking at his clear, but green, pool. His pool was opening the next morning, and he'd already gotten a nasty phone call from an anonymous member.

I didn't give him the answer he wanted. Instead, I gave him the answer that I've learned to give after 20 years of experience:

"I don't know!"*

The problem is that there are a bazillion reasons why pools behave the way they do. I've got a page somewhere, that I need to relocate and make available listing 100 real reasons why your pool may be cloudy. And, it's NOT a complete list.

Often, as the GM did, people asking this question have a deadline. Their pool is opening; they've got company coming; they've promised their wife or their kids . . . and they need to get it done NOW!

My job is to give them the answer they need:

"Sucks about the deadline, but your pool is not going to clean up as quickly as you want. What's more, trying to hurry almost always -- I can't think of an exception -- makes things worse."

StaClear, I'm sorry you are having problems. But the fact is your pool is almost certainly going to take much longer to clear than you hope.

You need to know that, and accept it. Why?

Because frantically trying to get it done NOW, will almost certainly make things worse. In fact, I'm guessing that that's already happened.

Most flocs can make things MUCH worse, if you don't use them EXACTLY right. Even when folks read and follow the long directions perfectly (and often they don't) sometimes the directions aren't long enough or complicated enough to cover the real difficulties of using those products. Why? Because if they were, nobody would buy them.

Flocs are products I used in the early part of my pool career. Once I had more knowledge and experience, I quit using them. Occasionally, they can help a little, but it's not worth the risk.

BTW, the stuff on the surface is just a characteristic of the finely ground HTH cal hypo and some flavors of pool water. I've seen it many times before. It's not a long term problem; it goes away after awhile; it can be avoided; but the way I've avoided it is too complicated to explain here.

Staclear, I made a list of everything you mentioned adding to the pool. Here's what I came up with:

• ?? quarts Hydro-Floc
• 6 gallons of bleach
• ?? lbs of HTH cal hypo
• 2 lbs of Fiber Clear

Also, several things are not clear to me about the history of the pool this spring?

• Did you refill it?
• Was it covered and slimy, and now you are trying to clear it up?
• Did something else happen?

Be SURE to include any special additives you used. Many of them -- Metal OUT, Phos OUT, floccing chemicals, among others -- can create cloudy water that is nearly impossible to clear. A large overdose of Metal OUT, in particular, can create a calcium phosphonate suspension that can't be removed with sand filtration. (I did that once, about 18 years ago!)

There are several reasons a pool can be green. The country club pool mentioned above was green from iron in the fill water. So, you need to give the mods and others a timeline on your pool this spring.

Meanwhile, stop using ANYTHING except bleach! Your pool situation is already too complicated to figure out from a distance, and we need to simplify things.

Also, take Aylad's advice and go get a small sack of DE powder. But, what I have in mind is a little different than what I think she did. With your pump on high, dump all the DE in through a skimmer. Then, go watch your pool return, where the water re-enters the pool fastest. If you see a cloudy stream, you've got sand or mechanical problems with your filter that will have to be fixed.

So to sum up:

1. Give up on getting it clear soon.
2. Add only bleach for now.
3. Test your filter with DE
4. Post the results and a pool timeline here.
5. List ALL specialty chemicals used.

Oh, and one more: don't go back to the pool store that's selling you all this stuff. Get your DE at Lowes or Home Depot or some other place that won't sell you something that makes things worse!

PoolDoc

* PS. The country club pool was clear and blue Saturday AM -- fortunately, there wasn't too much iron in the water!

[staclear]

Thanks Pool Doc for the advise.
I have in ground Gunite,23000 GLs. mesh covered in the winter,was opened last Friday. I use the same process i have done in the last 10 years. Water color was dark green, 1st day I used 4 lb of shocks and a 1/2 gallon of 30% algaecide, 48oz of acid to lower PH, when I dumped the shock in the water, 2 minutes later the white gooey stuff floated to the surface, my thinking was because of heavy Algae, the chlorine shock surfaced to the top.
I switched to liquid bleach, using 24 Qts every day, with that, also the Gooey white stuff surfaced to the top. I used about 4 lbs of filter clarifier which I used for the last 10 years and the pool cleared up by next day, not this time. I repeated the process again while still using bleach, water got blue but no t clear, Yesterday I used 1 Qt of Hydro Floc, 2 minutes later the white Gooey stuff surfaced again, which the label on the Floc bottle suggest this might happen, I ran the pump for an hour, shut it off, 12 hours later I vacuumed to waste, but the white stuff would not go away and remained on top.

PoolDoc, as I mentioned this is the 1st time I experience this kind of problem, the pool used to clear up with in 4 days with pump running 24/7.

I will take your advise and DE test the filter, use liquid bleach, and monitor it for the next week, hopefully the kids can swim next week end.

[chem geek]

The link referred to by Ben is 100 Reasons for Cloudy Swimming Water.

[PoolDoc]

Thanks, Richard.

StaClear, pools vary from year to year for all sorts of reasons. Even if it never happened before, it happened this year. If I was at pool side at your home, and could check everything out, I might give more specific advice. But, I'm not there, so I can't.

Most likely, it's going to take awhile to clear things up. Just follow the list, and report what you find.

Best wishes!

PoolDoc

[staclear]

40% Improvement form yesterday, the water is blue and clear in the shallow end (4ft deep).
with water chemistry as follow:
FAC-3
PH- 7.2
TA- 110
CH- 180
CYA- 40

The problem now is, can not hold chlorine every day I pour 24 Qt of 6% Bleach at night time, 12 hours later FAC reading is .5, what can be done/ Should I raise CYA level?

[Watermom]

No. Your cya is great at 40. You need to try to add chlorine more often instead of waiting 12 hours between doses. A pain, I know. But, necessary if you are going to defeat this problem. The more times a day you can test and shock it back up, the quicker you are gonna clear this pool. Glad to hear of the big improvement. Keep at it.

[chem geek]

It is normal for chlorine to be consumed as it clears the pool since it is getting used up breaking down what you currently see is making the pool cloudy. Even after it gets fairly clear, you may still have a higher-than-normal chlorine demand, but this should return to normal in a day or two after it's clear.

The key is to MAINTAIN the shock level of chlorine until three things happen: 1) the pool is crystal clear, 2) the overnight FC drop is <= 1 ppm and 3) the CC measures <= 0.5 ppm.

[staclear]

Slowly but surely!!! The color of water is improving . I'm shocking it twice a day, thanks for all of your help, the only thing remain is to figure out how to hold chlorine in the water longer.
CYA is steady at 40, PH 7.4- with $20 of bleach every day, is getting too costly!!!! any idea what to do beside patience?