Once again, I screwed up

[rockg]

At first, I thought the skimmer had sucked the thermometer in the suction line but finally found it in the deep end now that the water has cleared.. BUT I still have low pressure coming from something. What used to be 14 psi is now about 9 psi and just barely moving water. The pump is about 6 years old... would this be it's way of saying, Change me? It does look and sound like it is getting some cavatation? from somewhere as it just doesn't quite fill to the top. I'll change the Oring on the pump and see if that helps. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Poconos]

Glad you found the thermometer as I had no suggestions how to get it out of the pipe. As for the pump wearing out, no. There are no contacting parts in the pump case except for the shaft seal which is on the pressure side. The clearance between the impeller and chamber is close but does not touch so wear should not occur.
Are you getting bubbles out the returns? If so it's probably an air leak somewhere. All it takes is a very small leak on the suction side to mess things up. If the lid O-ring looks OK just try some silicone grease first. Easier and cheaper. To find the air leak you could use a squirt bottle to drip water around pipe joints and/or get a stethescope and use the open end of the hose to listen for air leaks around joints. Something I suggested a while back was to smear vaseline around pipe joints as that would probably seal a tiny leak temporarily so you can find it. Later wipe it off and use alcohol to remove any residue. Any thick grease will do. If you get it on any O-rings or non-plastic material, it may eventually attack the material which is why I said wipe it clean when done.
Hope this helps.
Al

[rockg]

Thanks for the reply Poconos... great to see you helping on the forum as always. Haven't really had any questions for y'all in a while..hehehe.
There are no bubbles that I see coming out of the returns, but the pump just doesn't seem to be like it was a few days back. Like I said, the pressure is low and looking into the waste basket, there's still some air churning around at the top... usually it's pretty much full to the top. I have bled the air out with the valve on top of the filter, if that helps, but it's still no pumping quite like it should.
I did take the o-ring off the pump, clean and silicon greased it, still the same thing. I did see a few hairline cracks in the o-ring, not sure if that would do it or not... the reason for trying another one (haven't purchased yet).
I also took the clamp off the pump to see about the impeller, it seemed fine with nothing caught up in it.
All the pipes are underground from skimmer to pump, but will try and listen around the pump and see if I hear leaking of air.
Still at a loss though.... thanks for replying !! If you think of anything else, please let me know !!

RockG in SC

[Poconos]

Those bubbles in the pump basket are staying there because the flow isn't great enough, which confirms what you said about low flow. Are we sure the pressure gauge is good? If the pressure is actually high that would be leading us down the wrong troubleshooting path. That's a long shot. On the filter valve, if you have a 'closed' position, try it and fire up the pump momentarily and see what the peak pressure reads. What make/model and HP of the pump? Also what kind of a filter....I just assumed sand. Doesn't matter though. Eventually you'll resolve this. The fact that you don't have bubbles out the returns now is pointing to a suction side blockage but that is a mystery too because you had a skimmer basket in place.
Al

[rockg]

Yes, I am pretty sure the pressure gauge is reading right. It usually stays on about 14psi.. now about 10psi. I can turn the pool cleaner on (pressure side cleaner) and flow is down to nothing out of the returns... usually not the case.
I will get the horsepower of the pump but I'm thinking 1hp Pentair Whisperflow. You were right, sand filter.
I am still leaning toward something in the suction side pipe. I did have the skimmer basket off while dumping out some oak tree worms so it was off for about 25 seconds, but there was really nothing in the pool I can think of that would have fit down the pipe... other than the thermometer.(That's why I was leaning that way but did find it in the deep end).
I did try a snake (later read it was a bad idea) from the skimmer toward the pump for about 30 feet with no results. I thought about trying the skimmer/drain valve apart again and maybe running a snake from that end down the skimmer line and see. I had just read there's a possibility of getting it stuck. I did read about the Drain King at Home Depot that blasts.. might try that as well.
I just don't understand why if it's a skimmer line blockage, why can't I get good pressure from the main drain line (switching off the skimmer line) since they are two separate lines, correct ??
I really appreciate you helping me out Poconos. Your name has been popular for years on the forum.... you do good work !! Thanks again !!

[Poconos]

You are right in all your assumptions. If it is a suction line blockage then whatever is causing it got past that valve. Doubtful I think. Maybe my next step would be to hook a length of 1.25" poolhose right to the pump and bypass the suction side plumbing entirely and see what happens. 30' though would be substantial flow resistance with that type of hose and kind of expensive. Since PVC is cheap, what about jury rigging 30' of 1.5" PVC pipe between the pump and pool. You don't even have to cement the pieces together. Cheap vinyl electrical tape (Home Depot 70 cents a roll) seals the pipe joints very well temporarily. Take it apart when done. All the pipe, unions, adapters, tape, would be under $15. That would definitely prove if something got in the pipes.
Did you try the filter valve in closed position? Also, does it have a 'bypass' or 'recirculate' position? Try that just for kicks too.
I'll keep checking back and thanks for the comments.
Al

[rockg]

Ok, first off, let me say your emailing to an idiot. I do believe I have solved my problem. Thinking over and over in my head, I believe that I vacuumed some of the pool without the skimmer basket. Yeah, I know... idiot. I am kicking myself as I type. I've had the pool 6 years and that was the 2nd time I have ever had to vacuum it. The reason this year was the cover tore open taking it off. It wasn't too bad on top, but there was stuff that I did vacuum and I'm sure that's the problem. I just can't believe I did it. Anyway.....
I did try and snake it today but I have cranked and cranked at one place about 23 feet from the pump. I am sure that's where the clog is located. I tried one of those Drain Wizards in the skimmer and was snaking from the other end... hoping it would break through. No such luck. So, that's where I stand. I will try and snake some more. My wife is out of town and it's hard to work on with two little boys running around. We'll see... but at least I think I know that it's clogged.....
Still can't believe I did that. I will have to post in the "bonehead" section of the forum once I get it solved.

[CarlD]

If the clog is above ground in PVC you can cut it out and splice in new PVC easily for very little cost. Pipe, fittings and primer and glue are quite inexpensive. A 10' length of 1.5" is just a few bucks at Home Depot. Just be sure to ONLY buy "Schedule 40" fittings. If you put in quick-connects, you'll be able to pull out that chunk of plumbing any time to clear it.

[Poconos]

Does that explain why switching to the main drain has the same problem? I guess that with 30' to the pump that valve is near the pool and the gunk got past it. May be difficult to do but can you hook up the pump backwards and try and blow the obstruction out with the pressure and volume the pump can deliver? A garden hose obviously won't hack it. Higher pressure but low volume and you can't develop enough force to knock the obstruction loose.
Al

[rockg]

Thanks guys for the comments. Carl, it is all underground... maybe even under concrete. I am thinking by snaking it from the skimmer, that the clog is on the lower end of the pipe, nearer to the pump. We're probably talking about 25 to 35 feet from the pump. Snaking from the skimmer, I get nothing... goes in and comes out easily. Snaking from pump backwards toward the skimmer, I hit stuff about 18 feet. I have an old snake that you have to hand crank.... which I did for hours. I can sneak the snake through most of it.. but at about 23 feet, it is rough. I turn, turn, turn and it really doesn't move much.
I did the Drain King from skimmer down and like I said, I do get pretty good flow, just not what it should be. Going the other way, it really doesn't do much.
My thinking is to get a longer snake, one that you really dont' have to hand crank, but can use a drill.. and try that. If not, then it might be time to either dig, cut a piece out to get a better, wider snake in there, or call Roter Rooter...hehehe. I don't know, but man, I can't even think why I did that. I was excited about getting the pool ready this year, kids were out in the yard, so I was paying attention to them and evidently, wasn't thinking. I never vacuum the pool, only 2 times in 6 years, but I will be sure next time to keep the basket in.
Oh well, just had a lot of hopes in that Drain King, but who knows how much junk is in there? I'm persistent.... and can't sleep until it's done, so somethings going to give soon.
Thanks again for all the help and moral support... y'all are great guys !!