Hayward inline chlorinator CL200- anybody have problems?

[CarlD]

Yo Cary, you mean like, uh, just bleach, ya know, Clorox, Purex, etc? Wow, I must say that is pretty radical. Just buy it at the store and dump it in? Tell me more, please.

You know, this is our tenth year with this pool and the words Cyanuric Acid have never come up before now. Honest. I guess it's always something, nome thane?

Hmmmm... Last year I used a different algaecide for the first time, a product with kind of a hokey name, a very bold name if you get my meaning. I wonder if that stuff had anything to do with the sudden change in my water chemistry fortunes...?? On the other hand, the pucks themselves could be the problem, and perhaps the cyanuric acid has been building up over time. The current water is three years old - put in a new vinyl liner about three years ago.

Thanks for your comments, any other thoughts greatly appreciated.

nome thane?

King Bud:
Welcome to our forum with our "radical" ideas about pool care. Actually, when you LOOK at what we recommend, you'll find they aren't at all radical--they are simple, proven, and effective. I've learned to look at the ingredients on the label, not the big name.

Bleach: This is Sodium Hypochlorite solution--usually 5.25% or 6%. If you go to a pool store and for liquid chlorine or liquid shock, you will see it's the same stuff, but usually 6%, 10% or 12% concentrations--Sodium Hypochlorite and "inert" ingredients (basically water). Those big blue 5 gallon containers of liquid chlorine are exactly the same stuff--in 12% solution. So using bleach isn't radical at all--"A rose by any other name..." Pool store guys will give you an INCREDIBLE line of blarney as to why they are "different". They aren't.

Baking Soda: Sodium Bicarbonate. Arm and Hammer. But at the pool store it's called "Total Alkalinity Raiser" and it costs a lot more. Usually it says "Sodium Bicarbonate" as the key ingredient! Sometimes it says some other sodium compound, but it's just another name for bicarb. So why buy it there?

Soda Ash: "ph Up", "Balance Pak..." This is Sodium Carbonate, not Bicarb. It's sold as Soda Ash, Washing Soda etc. But PoolDoc has pointed out that chemically, Borax (20 Mule Team Borax) is just as effective for raising pH, doesn't increase Total Alkalinity as much, and is safer to handle. Both can come from the super market.

CYA: This is also called Chlorine Stabilizer, Cyanuric Acid, or Pool Conditioner. Chlorine (no matter where you get it--liquid, tablets, powder) will break down rapidly when exposed to UV rays, or lots of contaminants, sometimes, on a hot, sunny day, in as little as 15 minutes. CYA slows this process down keeping the chlorine around longer. This is a two-edged sword. You NEED CYA to keep chlorine stable, but too much renders it less effective--ie, it stops killing stuff and stops metabolizing suntan lotion and other contaminants. Then you need higher levels of chlorine to maintain your pool. When you use Tri-Chlor pucks or Di-Chlor powder, both release CYA as they dissolve. If your CYA is too low, this is good. But at some point your CYA starts to prevent your chlorine from doing its job. Sooner or later, using pucks, you will hit this point. We suggest levels of CYA from 30 to 50ppm but some people like to run higher levels--60-80ppm. That's OK, but you must keep sufficient chlorine in your water to match. PoolDoc has "Ben's Best Guess Table" that gives you levels that are recommended.

Happily, Bleach and liquid chlorine don't add CYA at all.

You have a vinyl liner--so calcium levels are generally irrelevant to you, unless they go 'way too high. So don't get talked into adding calcium.

Algaecide. I never bother to look at what they call it. Black Algaecide, Mustard Algaecide, whatever. I look for "Poly....<something unpronounceable>....60%. This is PolyQuat that we talk about. It's the only algaecide most of us will use. If it isn't PolyQuat, I suggest you trash it--it will probably do more harm than good. PolyQuat is safe, effective, doubles as a flocculent, and you can use it all the time--usually a couple of ounces every week to a clean pool is enough to keep it clean.

Hope this helps!

[kingbud]

DUDES!!

Thanks so much for your friendly words. Store bought bleach indeed! As for the CYA, other pool readings, my tester only tests for chlorine, free and total. I'm showing a chlorine level of just over 10 to infinity. Cherry red, like, the color of codiene cough syrup. (...burps)

Well, needless to say, I'm off to get a water analysis today. God I hate the thought of having to drain a bunch of water to reset the CYA.... only place I can go is the city storm sewer and I worry about all the little critters downstream. Plus I would rather not be interrogated by DNR.

Polyquat. Yeah. Pass it on.

Later, Bud

[kingbud]

Hey guys, here are my test results:

CYA 80, TA 170, Ph 7.4, chlorine over 5

The guy at the pool store (Leslies) said that my initial opening shock of 4 lbs of di-chlor is probably the reason the chlorine is so high, and it should eventually dissipate, so maybe there's nothing wrong with the feeder... Also my initial algae treatment was with Leslies Algae Control, which is poly-ethelyne dichloride, so there's di-chlor again. He didn't act like the CYA of 80 was that big a deal... just lower the TA a bit and should be in good shape.

What do ya think? I know one thing, I like the idea of liquid chlorine for sanitation.

[CarlD]

Hey guys, here are my test results:

CYA 80, TA 170, Ph 7.4, chlorine over 5

The guy at the pool store (Leslies) said that my initial opening shock of 4 lbs of di-chlor is probably the reason the chlorine is so high, and it should eventually dissipate, so maybe there's nothing wrong with the feeder... Also my initial algae treatment was with Leslies Algae Control, which is poly-ethelyne dichloride, so there's di-chlor again. He didn't act like the CYA of 80 was that big a deal... just lower the TA a bit and should be in good shape.

What do ya think? I know one thing, I like the idea of liquid chlorine for sanitation.

CYA 80? you need chlorine at least at 5 if not higher--check Ben's Best Guess table. But you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT GO LOWER ON CHLORINE!!!!

TA of 170 in a vinyl pool? Don't worry about it! It's FINE!

pH of 7.4? Fine again!

All you need to do is
a) stop using di-chlor powder and tri-chlor tablets and use either bleach or
cal-hypo
b) keep chlorine in the 5- 10ppm range. You can double your tester's chlorine range by mixing pool water 1:1 with steam distilled water (from the local chain pharmacy). Do this, and when it reads 5ppm, it's really 10ppm.

Otherwise you are looking good. Ignore the "advice" (and I use the word loosely) from the guy at the pool store.

[WretchedVonKrank]

Wow... great info there. I have a question though. I just bought the Hayward CL200 (didn't read these threads first), but my pool has always been REALLY clean and kept well. Problem is I've been doing the sticks in the skimmer, and I have a heater (above ground pool), so I know it's not good for the pump or the heater with the sticks in there.
I figure the CL200 will be nice to have AFTER the heater and just control slow feed of chlorine. I often travel and my wife wouldn't be good keeping the levels correct with liquid. I do like the liquid and use that to shock and other times when a bit low... but just thinking the CL200 will be easier.
The question I have is about the backflow check valve they suggest.
Is that necessary? I suppose it would keep the chlorine gases from getting back to the heater.
Does anyone know what model back flow valve should be for that? Doesn't say it in the instructions with the CL200.. they just say you should use one. Why they don't include it is beyond me, if they say you need it.

Also, how's my thinking with the idea of that CL 200.. just to make it easy with slow release and keep it after the heater.

I've had the pool 3 yrs. and always kept right on the money for chemicals. Just had it checked today... CYA = 30 ... Chlorine 5 (maybe a shade high, but I poured some chlorine in this morning), PH 7.5 .... Alkalinity 90
Thanks for your help....

[MaryLee]

King Bud:
Welcome to our forum with our "radical" ideas about pool care. Actually, when you LOOK at what we recommend, you'll find they aren't at all radical--they are simple, proven, and effective. I've learned to look at the ingredients on the label, not the big name.

Bleach: This is Sodium Hypochlorite solution--usually 5.25% or 6%. If you go to a pool store and for liquid chlorine or liquid shock, you will see it's the same stuff, but usually 6%, 10% or 12% concentrations--Sodium Hypochlorite and "inert" ingredients (basically water). Those big blue 5 gallon containers of liquid chlorine are exactly the same stuff--in 12% solution. So using bleach isn't radical at all--"A rose by any other name..." Pool store guys will give you an INCREDIBLE line of blarney as to why they are "different". They aren't.

Baking Soda: Sodium Bicarbonate. Arm and Hammer. But at the pool store it's called "Total Alkalinity Raiser" and it costs a lot more. Usually it says "Sodium Bicarbonate" as the key ingredient! Sometimes it says some other sodium compound, but it's just another name for bicarb. So why buy it there?

Soda Ash: "ph Up", "Balance Pak..." This is Sodium Carbonate, not Bicarb. It's sold as Soda Ash, Washing Soda etc. But PoolDoc has pointed out that chemically, Borax (20 Mule Team Borax) is just as effective for raising pH, doesn't increase Total Alkalinity as much, and is safer to handle. Both can come from the super market.

CYA: This is also called Chlorine Stabilizer, Cyanuric Acid, or Pool Conditioner. Chlorine (no matter where you get it--liquid, tablets, powder) will break down rapidly when exposed to UV rays, or lots of contaminants, sometimes, on a hot, sunny day, in as little as 15 minutes. CYA slows this process down keeping the chlorine around longer. This is a two-edged sword. You NEED CYA to keep chlorine stable, but too much renders it less effective--ie, it stops killing stuff and stops metabolizing suntan lotion and other contaminants. Then you need higher levels of chlorine to maintain your pool. When you use Tri-Chlor pucks or Di-Chlor powder, both release CYA as they dissolve. If your CYA is too low, this is good. But at some point your CYA starts to prevent your chlorine from doing its job. Sooner or later, using pucks, you will hit this point. We suggest levels of CYA from 30 to 50ppm but some people like to run higher levels--60-80ppm. That's OK, but you must keep sufficient chlorine in your water to match. PoolDoc has "Ben's Best Guess Table" that gives you levels that are recommended.

Happily, Bleach and liquid chlorine don't add CYA at all.

You have a vinyl liner--so calcium levels are generally irrelevant to you, unless they go 'way too high. So don't get talked into adding calcium.

Algaecide. I never bother to look at what they call it. Black Algaecide, Mustard Algaecide, whatever. I look for "Poly....<something unpronounceable>....60%. This is PolyQuat that we talk about. It's the only algaecide most of us will use. If it isn't PolyQuat, I suggest you trash it--it will probably do more harm than good. PolyQuat is safe, effective, doubles as a flocculent, and you can use it all the time--usually a couple of ounces every week to a clean pool is enough to keep it clean.

Hope this helps!

Awesome post!! That about sums it up all in one place.

This should be a sticky at the top