Ascorbic treatment

[waterbear]

I have no doubts that your stains are caused by iron. Ascorbic acid would not remove brown copper stains at all!
Still get a recomfirmation on the copper levels in your water. For this you can use a copper test strip or even an aquarium copper test as long as it will register in the range of 0 to 1 ppm. If your copper is 1 ppm or above bit the bullet and drain.

[essikr]

Hello again !
Hope I'm not being a pest! Several things discovered today may be of interest to other pool owners.
The eyebolts that the safety rope attaches to were chrome plated .The chrome eventually has worn off leaving the base metal . The base metal is brass . I can see some corrosion on them (I removed them today). just wondering if this is the source of the metal in the water. Brass is a mixture of copper and zink. I realize the water balance is still the cause to erode the chrome off the eyes and then attack the brass. mwb
On another note , the step that I cleaned this morning with Vit C is starting to stain again this afternoon.
At this time it's a nice sunny day and my daughter is coming over. The ribs are on the grill and I'm on my third margarita. This father is going in the pool!

[szampino]

Essikr,

Hope you had a great Father's day. I would suggest you consider Waterbear's post and confirm/deny the copper level in your water before you take any additional actions including more swimming.

re: the staining. Given your CYA level you may have a very hard time controlling your Metals even with the Sequestering Agent.

I would reccomend that you post another complete set of numbers including your current CYA level.

[essikr]

It took awhile but I got a copper test kit these are the numbers on the water today.

CC=.2 FC =4 PH=7.3 Alk= 110 Cal hd=150 CYA = 110 copper .8

The stain is back as bad as it was when I started.I appreciate the suggection offered. Since our summer abruptly ended,no one is swimming in the pool. I found another source for ascorbic acid at Essential wholesale and ordered 5 pounds. Is there any way to determine how much sequestor I need to use when I do another ascorbic treatment?

[waterbear]

CYA = 110 copper .8

First thing I would do is drain and refill 1/2 to 2/3 of the water. This will get both your CYA and copper to more manageble levels!
Have you tested for iron?

[szampino]

Essikr,

I know how frustrating this whole process is. I battled the same 'Symptoms' 2 years ago and actually took last year off. This year the kids wouldn't let me so I had to 'Trust' the advice given on this site. My pool has been clean and clear all season so far. I would suggest you hit the search button and look for posts/threads that I have started - user-szampino.

Based on your recent post numbers, I would say that you may still be relying on someone else to test your water. I've got a 'Powder based' drop kit and have no idea how you can come up with a .2 CC, unless you put a .4 solution drop. I'm still new and learning so I'm sorry if I sound a bit synical and maybe you've got a different kit then me. I thought .5 was the lowest reading.

Not being an expert, but speaking as a survivor, I think you are going to have a very hard time keeping your 'Metals' under control when you have to maintain such a high Chlorine level due to your CYA level. Since you are not swimming now anyway, Reduce the CYA level by listening to Waterbear and do a partial refill, then DO NOT USE Stabalized Chlorine because you'll end up in the same place you are now, high CYA!

Because your FC is at 4 and your Chlorine level needs to be between 8-15, with a CYA of 110
=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm, you risk an Algea bloom which will require 'Shocking' and then the staining mess begins all over again.

My reccomendation is as follows:

1. Make sure you've got a 'Great' test kit.
2. Do the partial refill and get your CYA as low as possible, ie, 1/2 refill should get you around CYA-55, I would like to see it lower but I think Mbar suggested 50's in an earlier post.
3. Get your Alk between 80 - 110, get your PH to about 7.0 (between the 6.8 and 7.2 marks.
4. Let your Chlorine drop to 1-3.
5. Add Sequestering agent (not in the sun)- the stuff I used, HTH Metal Control and Pool Magnet required about 3oz per 1000 gal. So at 23,000 gal you'll need about 69 oz of sequestering. Let it circulate in the water at least four - eight hours (ignore the stains)
6. Now focus your attention to the Water Chemistry and ignore the stains. Get your Chlorine level up to the Shock level for your CYA level. **Suggestion, NO - Stablized Chlorine and Do not add it through the Filter, only somewhere at the return.
7. Get the FC level to hold at shock overnight or if your like me make it 2 nights. *Don't worry about the staining we are going to tackle it next.
8. Now that we know the water is 'Sanitized', let tackle the Staining.
9. Let your FC drop to the correct 'Sanitize' level for your CYA.
10. Vaccum
11. Backwash (if you've got that kind of system), if not, Clean your Filter.
12. Let your FC drop between 1-3. Shut the filter, add a maintenace to full dose (depending on how bad the staining is) of Sequestering agent(not in the sun). 23oz to 69oz. Let the pool sit for about 1-2 hours.
13. Turn the Filter back on and let it circulate long enough to turn the water over.
14. Vaccum again if needed, then Backwash or Clean Filter.
15. 'Slowly, bring your FC (no Stablized Chlorine and as suggested, NOT through the filter only at the return) to the correct 'Sanitize' level.
16. Let your filter run continuously until the water begins to clear. Hopefully it will be clear by this point.

**If you follow my suggestions, I reccomend you start a new thread and post your results at each step so 'Tweaks' can be made along the way.

We are here with you so don't think you are fighting this fight alone!

It took awhile but I got a copper test kit these are the numbers on the water today.

CC=.2 FC =4 PH=7.3 Alk= 110 Cal hd=150 CYA = 110 copper .8

The stain is back as bad as it was when I started.I appreciate the suggection offered. Since our summer abruptly ended,no one is swimming in the pool. I found another source for ascorbic acid at Essential wholesale and ordered 5 pounds. Is there any way to determine how much sequestor I need to use when I do another ascorbic treatment?

[mbar]

great post szampino It is excellent advice essikr. It is more important to make sure the pool is sanitized. Then you can deal with the stains, this way you won't have to shock right after the ascorbic acid treatment, so that the sequestering agent has time to sequester all of the metal that has been brought to solution by the ascorbic acid. I know it is frustrating, but once you get the idea you will be able to know your won pool, and how it reacts to chemicals you add.

[essikr]

Thanks for the advice szpiano , my test kit is a Taylor K-2006. I followed the directions they show . I have been using a 1"tablets in the chlorinator feeding after the filter and heater.I didn't know that they were stabalized and would raise the CYA. Are you suggesting using only liquid chlorine?

In the steps suggested I'm to add 69 oz of sequestor follow the directions to step 12 then add 69 more Oz of sequestor. I see no menthon of using the ascorbic acid to put the metal that is staining the pool back in solution? When I first did the ascorbic treatment the stains all disappeared. I assumed the metal was in solution and the sequestor would keep it there.Since it didn't , thought I didn't use enough sequestor.

I guess I was lucky for 18 years never having any problems like this!

[Watermom]

Thanks for the advice szpiano , my test kit is a Taylor K-2006. I followed the directions they show . I have been using a 1"tablets in the chlorinator feeding after the filter and heater.I didn't know that they were stabalized and would raise the CYA. Are you suggesting using only liquid chlorine?

They are definitely stabilized and are continuing to add cya to your pool. I didn't take the time this morning to go back and reread through this thread about your specifics except to find that you said your cya level was 120. Maybe somebody said it above as well and I just didn't see it, but NO MORE PUCKS for your pool. Szpiano is right about that. This is what happens to a lot of pools --- the owners continue to use pucks day after day, month after month all season long and unbeknowst to them, their cya level continues to rise. But, they don't use higher and higher chlorine levels to compensate for the higher cya level. Then, they can't figure out why they get algae because they have always had chlorine in their pool. Stick with bleach and you won't have that problem or rising cya.

[shadowman]

I can testify as to what Watermom is saying. I fought algae all last year due to high CYA and I quit using pucks. I too fought the drain and refill solution even though we are on city water. I had to vacuum to waste so much that I eventually had the same result as if I had drained it all at once. This year I think I can get away with using pucks while we are away on vacation but I will go back to bleach when we return.

Good Luck