Hope you're there Marie ??

[stma]

The other experts have already read about my plight.....but i'm at the breaking point in trying to figure out why the pool after 12 days is still cloudy and green...IS IT POSSIBLE that I have a metals issue with the water ??? Would metals turn the pool cloudy and green ( basically what it looked like when I opened)

....I'm holding a 30ppm FC number the past 36 hours and my PH and ALK are definely in line...Reason I ask about the metals is the pool store guy claimed that has been the issue of late here in the Poconos....
Any input would be appreciated..

[mbar]

If your chlorine is holding, then you probably do have a metals problem. If you some vitamin C tablets, you can crush them up and put them in a sock and rub on the sides or steps of your pool. If you see any change in color, it is a metals problem. Often metals make the water appear greenish brown. the reason is that the blue of the liner, or even water along with the yellow of the stains makes green . I would suggest trying the above test (vitamin C). If the stains are organic, they wouldn't come off with vitamin C, they would come off with chlorine. If the water is just green from metals, then a metal out sequestering agent would work. What happens is that when the chlorine is high, along with ph over 7.2 - 7.4, any metals that are suspended in the water fall out - usually staining the pool, or sometimes just the water. The way to get rid of the staining is to get the metals back into solution, or if it is in solution, but coloring the water, to get it sequestered. This is done by metal out (any that say will sequester metals), or if the stains on the surface of the pool are stubborn, you can do an ascorbic acid treatment. Ascorbic acid is just vitamin C. that is why the test with vitamin C tablets . Let me know how the test turns out. I am leaving to go on vacation tomorrow, and don't know if I have access to the internet, but I will check tomorrow for your post, and hopefully will be able to follow through. There is an ascorbic acid sticky on this forum, and all of the directions are on it. If you are going to do the metals out sequestering agent first (which I would suggest) You get your ph down to 7.0 - 7.2 add the metal out, and see if the stains or color of the water change. Add a little more than what is suggested on the bottle. Wait a couple of hours and if there is no change, you may need the ascorbic acid treatment.

[stma]

Marie, Thanks so much....the Vitamin C (with rosehips) DID in fact clean the side walls of the pool...to make sure, I flipped the sock over and (with all my might) tried to unleash the stains by sscrubbing the walls....it did not make a dent in the staining...

That said, do you suggest any particular brand of metal out ?? or do I need the ascorbic acid at this point ??

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your post.....although the water is holding a very high FC number, nothing else has been helping...(including 30 gallons of bleach in the past 7 days).....

Hoping you get this post before vacation....and HAVE a great vacation !!!(Away from PA :>......

Steve

[mbar]

You can use the metal out first, any kind, as long as it is a "sequestering" one. Don't get the real cheap ones - but one that costs at least $15.00. Try this first because you need it in there even if you do the ascorbic acid treatment. I think you will probably have to do the treatment, but you can use the metal out while you wait for the ascorbic acid to come in. Here is a copy of the treatment, there are links of where to buy the ascorbic acid on the web.


Here is the ascorbic treatment:

Take your chlorine down to 0, if there is chlorine in the water it won't hurt, it will just eat up the ascorbic acid, so you will need more to get rid of the stains. You can add poyquat 60 per directions on the bottle to avoid getting algae while the chlorine is low.
You will need about a half to one pound of ascorbic acid per 10,000 gal. I like to go lighter on it and see if all the stains lift off before adding more.

Put the filter on circulate.
Use a cup and go around the perimeter of the pool and drop it down the sides as you go.
Let the ascorbic acid circulate for 1/2 hour. You will be amazed how the stain just disappears before your eyes.

If the stain is not all gone, leave the filter in circulate and add more ascorbic acid close to where you still see stain. Leave it in circulate until all of the stain is gone. (add more ascorbic acid if it circulates for 1/2 hour and there is still stain)

When the stain is gone, add enough sequestering agent for the volume of your pool - more is better than not enough.

Put the filter back on filter and leave it on 24/7.

The ascorbic acid will bring your ph down, and sometimes the alkalinity. After 24 hours you can start to rebalance the water. Bring up your ph and alkalinity, - use arm and hammer washing soda first, it will raise both ph and alk. Make sure you test in between, because you don't want your ph to go any higher than 7.2. If your alkalinity is in range, and you still need to raise your ph, use Borax to take it up to no higher than 7.2. You can start to bring up your chlorine. You want to do this slowly. It will take a lot of chlorine - I prefer to use bleach only at this time, and try to take it up to your minimum chlorine for your cya according to the "best guess chart" . As you slowly raise the chlorine, watch for stains starting to form. If you see stains, make sure the ph is no higher than 7.2, and add more sequestering agent. You should see the stain lift in a couple of hours. Do not shock! Do not shock for at least 2 weeks! Make sure you keep your ph low for (7.2) for a week or two - it won't be hard because the ascorbic acid and sequestering agnet will help it stay low. Once your chlorine starts to hold, it means that you have used up the ascorbic acid in the water and it will be easy to rebalance the pool back to your regular parameters.

Here are two important notes: High ph along with high chlorine will precipitate any metals that are not sequestered out of the water and on to the surface of the pool again. If this happens take the ph back down to 7, or 7.2 and add more sequestering agent. This should lift the stain off. You can add polyquat 60 to the water before starting the stain treatment to avoid getting algae while the chlorine is low.

Here are two links to buy ascorbic acid:

http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.cgi

http://www.chemistrystore.com/Ascorbic_Acid.htm

Let me know if you have any other questions

[stma]

Marie, You're the BEST !! I ordered the Ascorbic and will head out this morning for the metal out agent..Should i see ANY form of improvement with the metal out product ??

Again, have a great vacation....(AWAY from Pocono Raceway) !!!

[mbar]

Sometimes you will see an improvement with the metal out - especially on new stains. The ascorbic acid treatment is really magical though, the stains just disappear in front of your eyes. Just remember to add some polyquat algaecide too, this way while the chlorine is low from the ascorbic acid, you won't get any algae (which when shocking the pool can lead back to stains ) Start with raising the chlorine up slowly with bleach, and if you see stains start to form, add more sequestering agent. Keep the chlorine on the low side of the "best guess chart". Keep the ph low for the first couple of weeks - no higher than 7.2. Good luck, and hopefully I'll be able to get online during the vacation to answer any questions you have.

[stma]

I'm just hoping this will not be a continual problem going forward.....I've never (in the past 8 seasons) had an issue with metals.....

N'Joy the Va-K

[szampino]

Posting reply here.

Regarding the Chlorine level for Metal control, I suggest you keep it low and your PH low. The Metal Control typically suggests a 7.0 PH, I have also read that keeping the Chlorine low is helpful.

[stma]

Marie: Hoping you had a great vacation...just a quick post to let you know the water this morning is crystal clear....The metal out product was the only thing needed (I'll hold on to the ascorbic in case it's needed later in the season).

Metal out/ Poly60/ low FC levels etc etc and the water cleared inside of two days...

A very BIG Thank You to you and Lisa for mentioning metal in the first place....I never would have assumed that was the issue ...

With that said, are my days of hard shocking over ?? I'd hate to see these metals drop out again...

Thanks again

[Watermom]

A very BIG Thank You to you and Lisa for mentioning metal in the first place....I never would have assumed that was the issue

I had a feeling it might be a metals issue. I'm gonna let Marie answer your question about shocking. She is our metals expert. Glad it is looking better.