Opening AG 24ft -Everything is wrong

[brianbo]

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate everyone's help.
The pool is clear with only a little bit of residue to pick up. A lot of brushing and vaccing to filter. My child went in on Tuesday. The DE filter worked great as last year with the sand filter the iron residue just blew back into the pool. I am glad to hear that the DE filter also clogs quickly with a lot of junk in the pool. Also, I backwashed to filter numerous times but not much lately as the pool is clear.
I bought new test strips but will buy the drop test as recommended.

I added 2 gals of 12% 2 days ago and yesterday went to the pool store.
FC - .1
TC - 1.1
CC - 1.0
ph - 7.0
CA - 60
AL (w/stablizer correction) - 70
CYA - 35
They said add 3 gals of 12% and 2 trichlor pucks which I did and do not add stabilizer as the CYA was good. I also added 5 lbs of baking soda.

From this website, I know that I should not have bought calcium/hardness but I did anyways. Was that a total waste of $$$ with me having an AG and vinyl liner? I resisted 4 times of testing at the pool place but I will try anything.
If Chlorine does not hold when I test this afternoon, should I add Stabilizer or just keep adding 12%?
Is CYA and Stabilizer the same thing?

[CarlD]

Do NOT, repeat NOT use the Tri-chlor tabs! That was terrible advice. Your pH is 7.0--on the very edge of too low and Tri-chlor will push it down, making it worse. Your CYA is 35 which PERFECT and the Tri-Chlor will push that up, making it worse as well!

The 3 gallons of 12%? How big is your pool? I have 20000 gallons and two of those would raise my FC by 12ppm! Still, it's not TERRIBLE advice, unlike the Tri-Chlor, excessive baking soda, and useless calcium.

Your T/A is a little low, but I think 5 # of baking soda is too much. Start with 1 # and then measure. If you are between 80 and 100, you are DONE and don't add more.

Calcium is a TOTAL waste of money! You don't need calcium in your vinyl pool! If you MUST add calcium, buy Cal-Hypo and use that--at least you'll be getting useful chlorine for your money and the calcium will be essentially free. If you need calcium or don't care about calcium, Cal-Hypo is a better source of chlorine than Tri-Chlor or Di-Chlor as it doesn't affect CYA at all, and has less effect on pH.

[brianbo]

OK. I will take out the trichlor pucks as I thought I read that it contained stabilizer. I will never bother with Calcium again.
Mine is 13,500 gal.
From Pool store:
My results Recommended
T/A - 70 100-150 (**printout said add 5lbs so I did**)
PH - 7.1 7.2 -7.8
CYA - 35 30 - 150
FC - .1 1 -3
TC - 1.1 1 -3
CC - 1.0 1 -3

The pool store said CYA was good but to add trichlor puck. I do not understand by recommended from above the CYA = 30 which is at low end but it is perfect. Is the recommended high end to sell more chemicals?

How much baking soda will raise TA by 10ppm?
How much Borax will raise PH by 10ppm?
If CYA is within range, do not use Trichlor?

[aylad]

The trichlor pucks do contain stabilizer, which is the same as CYA, but you don't need any more CYA in your pool. For the amount of CYA you have now, you need to keep your chlorine level at a minimum of 3, and preferably closer to 5 ppm. The pucks also lower pH, and yours is already too low, so that's why Carl is telling you not to use the pucks. So yes, if CYA is at the range you need, do NOT use trichlor because it will push it higher, which will require water to be drained/refilled, or require higher baseline chlorine levels to keep the pool clean.

Your CC is greater than 0.5, and accounts for almost all of your total chlorine, so you also need to shock the pool to 15 ppm to burn off all the CC, allowing the CC to return to zero, and your FC to be equal to the total chlorine.

How much Borax it takes to raise pH by 10 pm depends on your alk level, so there is no real rule of thumb like there is for chlorine. In your size pool, I would not add more than about a cup of Borax at a time slowly through the skimmer, allow to circulate a couple of hours, then retest--it's much easier to sneak up on your target level than to overshoot it.

The same goes for TA--I don't know of a rule of thumb to calculate how much baking soda it takes to raise it, except I know what works in my pool. However, TA is a pain to have to lower, so again I would use only 1 cup increments and retesting in between doses until you get it to where you want it. Since you've already added 5 pounds, I'd say you're not going to have to add any more, at least for this season.

Janet

[brianbo]

Thanks again Carl, Janet and everyone.
I read so much in this forum last week it made my head spin as the pool was a mess. I knew I saw a post about ammonia, PH and I found it as it was in this forum under FAQ. It said on startup to get PH up to 7.5 and add chlorine and do not worry about TA but I could not find it. I figured out today that I need to be logged in for Search capability. I am not to swift sometimes.
I found and saved Ben's best guess chart so I have that.
My first 2 years were easy and last year with the iron was not so easy. I think I had other issues last year but that is in the past.

When adding chemicals seems like going easy on everything except chlorine.
Pool Store recommended level on chlorine is 1 to 3.
But Bens recommended FC is 3-6 with CYA = 35. To me that is not close.
What is recommended level on TA and PH as pool store is TA 100-150 and PH is 7.2 - 7.8? My PH is 7.1 but do I want it at 7.5
Is everything rule of thumb or just learn by doing based on pool size, area, climate, etc?

Thanks again,
Brian

[Watermom]

We suggest alk at 80-120, ph anywhere between 7.2-7.8 is OK, but we prefer 7.4-7.6. And, yes, a lot of it is just rule of thumb and based on all the things you mentioned above. You just have to learn what works best for your pool.

[CarlD]

According to our in-house chemists, they are now saying T/A really should be in the 80 to 100 range, though I have never had problems with a vinyl pool with it as high as 180ppm.

Try reading some of the stickied threads that Watermom, aylad, Poconos and I authored, especially on pool maintenance and BBB. They should make it a lot clearer.

Remember: in a vinyl pool you are concerned with pH and sufficient chlorine to keep it sanitary. Everything else serves those two thing--T/A helps keep pH constant. CYA(Stabilizer) helps keep chlorine from breaking down too fast. Calcium is only for hard-sided pools.

And most of the other chemicals and tests (phosphates and "Total Dissolved Solids") are designed to keep the pool stores and pool chem companies solvent.

[daisy11]

Not to add to your confusion, but with metals in your water, I would try to keep your pH toward the lower end of the "good" range....I keep the pH between 7.2 and 7.4 in my pool because of the iron in my fill water.

And yes, they will tell you to add all sorts of chemicals to your pool at the pool store because they are in the business of selling chemicals. I just tell them that I have it at home, thank you very much.