Re: FAQ: Common Spring Startup Errors

[CarlD]

Tough problem!

Some basic questions of things I did NOT see:
Are you...
1) running your filter 24/7?
2) vacuuming to waste everyday?
3) brushing the bottom and walls everyday?

Your TA and CH together shouldn't be a problem in a vinyl pool--at least not enough to gen clouding.

So it's got to be algae.

DE in the sand filter will increase the filtering by decreasing the size of particles that get trapped. A 10lb box is usually about $8. You add about a cup. The object is to raise the pump pressure 5lbs, but no more. I suspect there's either a problem with your filter or your pump may be too big for it. What's the size on these two? Do you know the GPM the pump produces and the filter's max GPM?

You can also use skimmer socks--they increase filtration at the skimmer--but you'll have to clean it a couple of times a day. They aren't too expensive. There's some sort of bag you can attach to the return that "polishes" the water by micro-filtering it--it's expensive--about $70--but I don't remember its name. It is supposed to work.

Meanwhile, you need to get your FC up 20ppm. Since you are using SO much chlorine, it may make sense to find a local pool store that sells the 12% 5 gallon drums--each is like 10 gallons of 6%. Occasionally some stores will even get 26%--a five gallon drum is like 25 gallons of 5.25%. But it's hard to find. You also want a store that turns over its stock of these "carboys" every week--higher concentrations break down into lower concentrations, and the higher they are, the faster they break down.

Still, you can add ALOT of chlorine at once, and you don't have 20 or 30 bottles to recycle--the carboys are re-fillable. It's convenient and easier, but not always cheaper.

With 36,000 gallons, it should take 5 gallons of 6% to raise your pool 8 1/3ppm. If it's taking more, you are fighting something. But if it's not, and it's holding the FC, then you have a filtering problem.

Don't dose your pool up to 50ppm--that's only a strategy for a concrete pool. "Taming the Pool Monster" was, for me, a complete waste of money--this site has worked far better over the years.

Stick to the strategy. Ben (PoolDoc) may give you an alternate plan that's a "Plan B". If Ben (and only Ben) does so, please follow it instead--he'll have seen something unusual that requires something drastic. Until then, keep the FC up, run the filter 24/7, add DE, vacuum and brush daily.

Good luck!

[vanhout]

Tough problem!

Some basic questions of things I did NOT see:
Are you...
1) running your filter 24/7?
2) vacuuming to waste everyday?
3) brushing the bottom and walls everyday?

Your TA and CH together shouldn't be a problem in a vinyl pool--at least not enough to gen clouding.

So it's got to be algae.

DE in the sand filter will increase the filtering by decreasing the size of particles that get trapped. A 10lb box is usually about $8. You add about a cup. The object is to raise the pump pressure 5lbs, but no more. I suspect there's either a problem with your filter or your pump may be too big for it. What's the size on these two? Do you know the GPM the pump produces and the filter's max GPM?

You can also use skimmer socks--they increase filtration at the skimmer--but you'll have to clean it a couple of times a day. They aren't too expensive. There's some sort of bag you can attach to the return that "polishes" the water by micro-filtering it--it's expensive--about $70--but I don't remember its name. It is supposed to work.

Meanwhile, you need to get your FC up 20ppm. Since you are using SO much chlorine, it may make sense to find a local pool store that sells the 12% 5 gallon drums--each is like 10 gallons of 6%. Occasionally some stores will even get 26%--a five gallon drum is like 25 gallons of 5.25%. But it's hard to find. You also want a store that turns over its stock of these "carboys" every week--higher concentrations break down into lower concentrations, and the higher they are, the faster they break down.

Still, you can add ALOT of chlorine at once, and you don't have 20 or 30 bottles to recycle--the carboys are re-fillable. It's convenient and easier, but not always cheaper.

With 36,000 gallons, it should take 5 gallons of 6% to raise your pool 8 1/3ppm. If it's taking more, you are fighting something. But if it's not, and it's holding the FC, then you have a filtering problem.

Don't dose your pool up to 50ppm--that's only a strategy for a concrete pool. "Taming the Pool Monster" was, for me, a complete waste of money--this site has worked far better over the years.

Stick to the strategy. Ben (PoolDoc) may give you an alternate plan that's a "Plan B". If Ben (and only Ben) does so, please follow it instead--he'll have seen something unusual that requires something drastic. Until then, keep the FC up, run the filter 24/7, add DE, vacuum and brush daily.

Good luck!

Thanks a lot for the in depth reply. Here's the answers to the questions you posed.

- I am running 24/7, for the last 2+ weeks I've been open, except for 6 hours yesterday I turned it off to see if anything settled out

- I vacuumed to waste when I had a substantial quantity of stuff to pick up, now I get a light amount of "dirt" every day or two, so I haven't been going directly to waste, but typically backwash after vacuuming

- I have brushed occasionally, not every day. I don't have any visible algae - nothing green, so it hadn't occured to me

- My hardware is a Jacuzzi 350 filter, 83 gph, and a 1.5 HP motor on the pump, which is also a Jacuzzi. The tag on the pump is bleached out, I can't read it, so I don't know what its flow rate is. I put new sand in the filter about 2 years ago.

I've got some DE, I'm going to try that next. I'm still losing 2-3 ppm overnite, and the pool is still cloudy. Not super cloudy, but not as good as it normally is. I've been maintaining at least 10 ppm, I moved it up to 17 ppm last night and I'm going to maintain at 15 ppm for a while.

Some questions:

- You recommended adding DE for a 5 psi increase, Poconos recommended a 1 psi increase. Thoughts?

- So you think I should just keep maintaining a high Cl level? Would another super shock level be in order - like 20 or 25 ppm? I'm at 50 CYA, so according to the chart, I'm at shock level already at 15 ppm.


I'd love to be able to get bulk Cl somewhere, my pool store only carries the gallon containers of 12%, and they don't even have those in stock until the swimming season starts. Those carboys would be great if I could get them.

Thanks again to everyone for the great tips, I hope I can get this cleared up soon.

[CarlD]

Go with Poconos...Al knows more about it than I do.

For some reason I thought your CYA was 60--hence the higher shock.

My concern with the pump and filter is if the pump's flow rate is higher than the filter's, it won't filter correctly

[Poconos]

Do the 1 psi rise in pressure. Any more and I suspect you'll just be wasting DE. If you are indeed vacuuming small stuff you'll see the pressure rise quickly even to the fully blocked point so keep an eye on the pressure.
Al

[vanhout]

Pool got noticeably clearer today. Still not where I want it, but notably better. I'm pretty encouraged.

I lost a good 3-4 ppm of FC again over the last day. I'm going to keep the FC up at 15 for another couple of days.

I think that DE was a really good tip. So, everytime I backwash I put in more DE?

Thanks for the tips, this is as good as the pool has been yet this year.

[Watermom]

Yes - until you get your pool really clear and then you don't have to, although you still can if you want. I have a sand filter and I don't, but some people with sand filters routinely do add DE. It is a matter of preference. Glad it is looking better. I'm glad the DE tip seems to be working for you. Hopefully it won't be too much longer until you have sparkling clear water.

[jmcst25]

Within Ben's 'sticky' he recommends "drain and refill .... If you don't drain, plan to consume a LOT of chlorine, getting rid of the ammonia and urea....."

If you had high CYA levels (> 70 ppm) last fall, you may consume as much as 200 ppm of chlorine in the clean up process. (~ 80 gallons of household bleach, for a 20,000 gallon pool!) "

Draining / refilling might be cheaper than chemicals depending on where you live. ( just be safe in draining).

Good luck.

[vanhout]

The 200 ppm estimate might not turn out to be too far from correct. I've used over 70 gallons of 6% chlorine, which in my pool is 116 ppm. That's in 16 days.

If it happens ever again I think I would partially drain and refill. I'm on a well, and it would take a long time to fill 8 or 10k gallons off the softener.

[vanhout]

Still fighting. Water is still cloudy. Not bad, but not perfect. It ate 6 ppm of CL in 24 hours with CYA of 50, it wasn't that sunny.

[Watermom]

Keep hitting it with bleach.