Fighting Algae with Borax

[topless]

After reading and re-reading the test thread, I decided to add the borax and acid to my pool. I've been battling mustard algae and even with FC in the upper 20'sppm the pool just wouldn't clear out completely. About 3 years ago I got talked into the Bioguard Optimizer plus and it worked, but not understanding how or what to test for, eventually I lost the benefits.
This morning my pool before was still a little cloudy, I couldn't see the main drain. I backwashed the filter and vacuumed to waste.
FC -15
cc -.5
cya -50
temp -80
ph 7.3-4
TA- 220

I added 8 boxes of borax and 2.5 gallons of muratic acid, within 30 minutes the cloudy bottom cleared up. After an hour I checked the ph, it was right at 7.4.
6 hours later, I added 7 more boxes and another 2.5 gallons.
I just ran all tests
FC 5.5
CC- under .5
cya -under 50
ph 7.2 (I'm aerating to bring down the TA, 2 weeks ago it was over 300)
TA-190
temp -81
The water is crystal clear, I can see sand grains on the bottom next to the main drain.
This may not be the best thing, but considering I've been shocking my pool for 4 weeks, (over 120 gallons of bleach and about 60 lbs of cal-hypo) I am quite pleased with the results.

[waterbear]

I guess we're getting some empirical proof that borates do kill algae!

[Kimrst]

I added borax to my intex pool the begining of the season and I've not had the mustard bloom this year either. Its been too long since I did it to remember how much I put in my 6500 frame pool, but I know that is the thing that I'm doing diffrent this year and its working. I'd advise all kiddy poolers to try this in the begining of the season and see if it doesn't work for them. Kimrst

[leejp]

I'm in the Northeast and I generally have to adjust the PH up after heavy rains (which are acidic). Can the Borax be added over several years of time and still be effective?

And... is there a place where one can purchase Borax in bulk?

[waterbear]

To be effective it needs to be in the 30-50 ppm range. Adding borax for pH control generally will not get it into that range. You can probably purchase either the decahydrate or the pentahydrate form in bulk from a chemical supply. Here is a link for the decahydrate form (same as 20 mule team)
http://www.chemistrystore.com/borax.htm

Their prices are actually higher than the grocery store or walmart where you can buy a 4.75 lb box of 20 mule team borax for under $3!

Edit: To achieve 50 ppm borates in your 26k pool (assuming that no borates in the water) you would need 97.5 lbs (about 20.5 boxes of 20 mule team) and would need about 6 gallons of muriatic acid to bring the pH back in line and create the boric acid/borate buffer system in the water.

[leejp]

To be effective it needs to be in the 30-50 ppm range. Adding borax for pH control generally will not get it into that range. You can probably purchase either the decahydrate or the pentahydrate form in bulk from a chemical supply. Here is a link for the decahydrate form (same as 20 mule team)
http://www.chemistrystore.com/borax.htm

Their prices are actually higher than the grocery store or walmart where you can buy a 4.75 lb box of 20 mule team borax for under $3!

Edit: To achieve 50 ppm borates in your 26k pool (assuming that no borates in the water) you would need 97.5 lbs (about 20.5 boxes of 20 mule team) and would need about 6 gallons of muriatic acid to bring the pH back in line and create the boric acid/borate buffer system in the water.

Are Borates effective in controlling bacteria as well? Since going BBB and running appropruate FC for my CYA I have not had an algae problem but did have pink bacteria once. Those buggers are prety persistent. The original owners of the house used Baquacil (Bioguard Softswim) but converted and I think the bacteria may be left over from way back then.

So about ~$100 for the"experiment". If Borates can help with Bacteria it may be worth a try.

[topless]

I paid $2.67 per box at Walmart.
Prior to adding the borax, I was having to add 5-6 lbs of cal-hypo or more per day and keeping the fc above 20 ppm. 2 days now, I added 1 bottle of bleach to keep fc above 6 ppm, my cya is still close to 50.
I'm having trouble letting go of continuously adding chlorine, it's become a habit.

[chem geek]

topless,

I'm glad the Borax is working for you and it's good to know that it seems to inhibit yellow/mustard algae. Prior to your experience, we only saw that it seemed to inhibit the much more common green algae.

By the way, to shock yellow/mustard algae we figured out (through a few users experiences on this forum) that it takes lowering the pH to 7.2 and then raising the FC to 60% of the CYA level (instead the usual 40% for green algae) and holding it there for at least 2-3 days. In your case that would have been 30 ppm FC. Then to keep away the yellow/mustard algae if it gets reintroduced it would take a minimum FC level of 15% of the CYA level or 7.5 ppm FC in your case. In this post you said you had to shock at 25 ppm FC or else the yellow/mustard algae would return in a few days. So that's close to the 30 required for shocking this algae, but was the subsequent maintenance level required to keep it away 7.5 ppm or something else -- the post sounded like dropping anywhere below 25 ppm FC would have the algae return? I just want to confirm that you weren't seeing anything inconsistent with "first 7.2 pH then 30 ppm FC shock then 7.5 ppm FC maintain" at 50 ppm CYA, since this is the advice we are currently giving (and now we can say that Borates will help as well).

Richard

[topless]

I was trying to keep the ph at 7.2 and aerating it to lower my TA. When it would get back to 7.4, I added a quart of acid to lower it back down.
I had a tough time keeping the FC above 25 and I was trying to keep it over 30, but the algae was consuming 15-20 ppm every 12 hours especially during the day. That's part of the reason I went to cal-hypo granules and 3" pucks, I was buying 30 bottles of bleach at a time and went through 60 bottles in one weekend. The cal-hypo allowed me to keep the FC higher with less trash. Along with adding 5-6 lbs of granules ( in my pool that should equal 4ppm per lb)I would put 2-3 pucks in the skimmer and 4-6 in front of discharge nozzles, in an attempt to keep the FC up. At one point I added 12 lbs of granules and raised the pool level trying to kill anything and everything. After that, it was easier to keep the FC near 30.
With this amount of FC, the pool was clearing, but the last 2-3 days it seemed to be stalled out leaving the deep end cloudy at the bottom.

It rained again yesterday, so the cover has been closed. If the sun stays out today (40% chance of rain), I'll open it this afternoon and test again. Hopefully, the pool will still be clear.

[chem geek]

When you have that much junk in the pool, it sometimes helps to vacuum to waste if it is settled at all (perhaps when the pump is off for a short time). Chlorine will break down algae, but when there's a whole lot of it then it is sometimes more efficient to remove the bulk directly or via the filter and frequent backwashing (for sand filter). In some cases, a floc helps consolidate the particles and settle to the bottom to make vacuum to waste easier and usually that is a last resort, but it really depends on how much there is to clear. Though chlorine can clear it, there's a tradeoff between how much chlorine you're willing to use vs. doing physical removal. When most people use chlorine, they are also doing some sort of physical removal as well whether that's vacuum to waste or regular cleaning out of the filter.

If your pool doesn't have a floor drain, then circulation can be poor at the bottom so vacuum to waste (possibly after a floc) may work better in that case.

Anyway, it sounds like the shock level worked except for the large bulk of material and possibly poor bottom circulation, but avoidance is easier and hopefully the Borates will work long-term for you.

Richard