Borax or Arm & Hammer???

[mariner09]

So, looking at the BleachCalc section on pH, it says to add Soda Ash, not Borax, I guess that's the confusiing part. Is there a magic number that says x lbs of Borax will raise pH x number in 10,000 gallons?

I'm trying to find that right now in this forum...

[tphaggerty]

There are 3 (not 2) products you might be working with. Two of them are Arm & Hammer, so be careful!

Arm & Hammer Baking soda is sodium bicarb. It is generally used in BBB for raising alkalinity, but does raise PH as well.

Arm & Hammer Washing soda is sodium carbonate (I think, I am sure Richard aka Chem_geek will jump in soon). Also know as Soda ash. It raises PH a lot (about twice as much per measure as borax). Not sure what it does to alk.

Borax (20 Mule Team, green box) raises PH, but not alk.

You don't want the Baking Soda, your TA if fine. You can use Borax or washing soda. Most on this site would use Borax.

[mariner09]

The A&H I have is baking soda or sodium bicarb. I'll keep that for raising both when I need it.

I also have Borax and will add 1/2 a pound this morning to see what it does. I haven't put in CYA yet, but that will go in after the Borax this morning and then I should be on my way.

TA seems good, pH needs a slight bump, so that seems to be the way to go. Seems like BleachCalc may be labelled wrong because in the pH section it impicitly states that the numbers are not for Borax use but for Soda Ash in regards to raising pH.

So, if Soda Ash is twice as potent for pH than Borax, would it be safe to assume that if I follow BleachCalc then I would need twice the amount of Borax for a comparative rise to pH from Soda Ash?

[CarlD]

1) Borax raises pH. It will raise Total Alk because raising pH raises T/A, but will not raise it additionally.

2) Baking Soda raises Total Alk. It will raise pH some, but don't plan on using it as your pH raiser. Arm and Hammer sells it in the familiar ORANGE box, and it's Sodium BI-carbonate.

3) Washing Soda is Soda Ash. Pool stores call it things like "pH UP!" but it's all the same stuff, Sodium Carbonate (not BI-carbonate!). Soda ash raises BOTH pH and Total Alk, the latter almost as much as Baking Soda, so you should NOT use Soda Ash when your Total Alk is good or high.
Arm and Hammer makes Washing Soda and sells it in a YELLOW box.

I don't tend to calculate amounts. If my pH is low, I add one pound of Borax, wait a few hours and retest. If it's still low, I add again until it's good.

I do the same with Total Alk.

If both are low, I'll add a pound of Washing Soda (not paying pool store rip-off prices!).

Add in small amounts, wait, then re-test.

The other day I had a guy in a pool store try to convince me that the Biogard alk raiser wasn't baking soda..."It's similar" and then used one of the alternate names the pool chem industry uses to fool and gouge people--Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate. I told him "It's not similar, it's exactly the same thing. That's an alternate name for Sodium Bicarbonate" Naturally he didn't want to believe me.