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Thread: Pump timer

  1. #1
    CanuckPool is offline *Removed User* Weir Watcher CanuckPool 0
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    Default Pump timer

    I posted this on the other pool website so ignore if you have read it already.

    OK, let me first preface this by saying I have no experience dealing with electricity, all I know is positive and negative
    and thats about it

    I want to hire an electrician to install a pool timer. My setup is this. I have a 100amp main box that services my house. There a dual 30amp circuit breaker in that box from which there is a pony box that is wired into it. The pony box (located outside by the equipment)
    has 2 15amp breakers, one is the main breaker that kills everything (pump, SCG, extra outlet) and the other
    I am not sure, it could be the extra outlet only) I have a Pentair mini max 300ch Millivolt
    heater, the kind that doesnt have a direct electrical connection, I guess it uses a pilot light/switches and
    water pressure to operate? The pump is a 1.5 hp pentair superflow and the SWG is a pentair ig20.
    The pump and swg are hardwired into the ponypanel.

    Ok, so what type of timer can i get to run this setup, I had an electrician come in and give me a quote and he
    seemed baffled by the heater, and basically told me he isnt licensed to touch it. I guess I need an electrician that has his HVAC license. I went to Home Depot and the guy that worked in the electrical dept was stumped too and was basically telling me I need 2 seperate timers and then he went into this single pole, double pull, blah blah blah thing.

    I need the heater to turn off 5-10 minutes before the rest of the equipment does. I'm not installing myself but I would like to get a little educated on it so when I do meet with an electrician I don't have that stupid look on my face.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    I know enough to electrocute myself, will that help?

    You'd probably have to be a licensed electrician to know the lingo. That said I'm going to guess you're looking for a timer or digital control that has a fireman's switch feature. This allows you to set a time period that the pump runs after heater turn off. I never heard of it before I bought an Intermatic PE153 digital control. But apparently you can get them for mechanical timers too.

    I'd look for someone that has experience with installing digital controls and timers for pools and spas. They should also know enough to speak in layman's terms and not overwhelm you with the lingo.

    But I'm baffled by the heater that doesn't have an electrical connection. The manual for the one you specify seems to indicate that it needs electricity to operate the gas valve, ignite the gas, and operate the thermostat. How do you turn it off before the pump shuts down now?

    Otherwise the items you listed can be powered using either 115 or 230 volt. You'll need to know which is being used before buying or installing a timer as some are one or the other, and many are either but have a switch that must be set to the right voltage for each timed circuit. From your description I'd guess they're all wired to 115v. But I'm assuming that the pony box is breaking the 230v from the house into two 115v circuits.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    My gas heater has no electrical connection either. It uses a thermocouple to open and close the gas valve. A thermocouple generates minute voltages based on temperature differences. The heater requires no timer because it senses demand for heat from the water flowing through it. I think they also have flow sensors in them too. All you should need in an Intermatic (or another brand) time switch, I replaced mine with one from Home Depot. I also have another timer for my booster pump which is wired to only function if the main pump switch is on.
    34 X 22/15 inground vinyl w/ Hayward equipment

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    So if you have a heater like that, how do you turn it off before the pump? Seems like it would shut itself off when the flow stops.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    That would be true. Luckily I don't need mine anyway because I have a solar heating system that saves me a bundle
    34 X 22/15 inground vinyl w/ Hayward equipment

  6. #6
    CanuckPool is offline *Removed User* Weir Watcher CanuckPool 0
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    ok I did a little more research. The heater as stated by shadow man has a thermocouple. The pilot light heats two pieces of different metals twisted together creating a small electrical current, enough to operate the switch to turn on the heater. It also has a flow sensor to tell it when it can turn the heat on. Now, they problem is that I still need to turn off the heater about 10 minutes before the pump turns off. I do believe what I need is the intermatic timer that has a firemans switch (as mentioned) I just need to find a guy that has done spa/pool work... anyone know anybody north of toronto???

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    When I first looked at the online manual for your heater I scrolled to the part for IID heaters and thought it needed line voltage to operate. According to the schematic on page 31 (A-9) there are two options for remotely switching the heater. A 2 wire on and off, or a 3 wire option for the pool/spa/off switch. In either case, they are low voltage lines that have to be isolated from line voltages. I see Pentair makes automation controls that take this into account but they are probably overkill. Or at least more than you were thinking of spending.

    Sorry I can't be of any more help. Good luck.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckPool View Post
    I need the heater to turn off 5-10 minutes before the rest of the equipment does.
    Why?

    As we found out earlier I have about the same set-up as you. I also have the Pentair Mini Max NT. When the timer shuts the pump off then the fan inside the heater might run for a few minutes to cool itself off but it then shuts down by itself.

  9. #9
    CanuckPool is offline *Removed User* Weir Watcher CanuckPool 0
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    From what I understand its not good for uncirculated (hot) water to sit in the heater manifolds, I guess it causes premature wear... can any one confirm this?

  10. #10
    tenax is offline Registered+ Widget Weaver tenax 0
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    Default Re: Pump timer

    i wouldn't worry about incirculated hot water..it has hot water running through it all the time when running, eh? i don't believe that's the issue. it's the issue of whether your heater has a cool down fan system or not. i have a jandy 2. it says nothing that i've found to indicate there is such a system in it..what it has is 2 schedule 80 pvc pipes with the intent to bleed off hot gases over their length so it's not so hot when it hits the schedule 40 pipe about 8 inches past the schedule 80 tubes. sounds great in principal but given i've been there with melted pipes when in my old system, i forgot to turn the heater off 15 minutes before the pump and came out the next morning to find water shooting all over and my pipes bent like spaghetti. i can laugh about it now, but if it had got to the pipe that goes into the ground..that could have been some major trouble. so, i have a 12 minute pre-shut off switch built into my system to shut the heater off that amount of time before the pump. works great and the only time i would have a potential problem is in an electrical storm and a lightning strike (same problem frankly that a heater with a fan would have..power goes out, your screwed)..so..whatever you do, shut the heater off in an electrical storm

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