Solar Panels Q?

[shanode]

OK, I've read over a lot of the threads regarding solar panels and how they work but I'm still struggling. Here's my situation:

We had a 16'x46" round pool with two 2x20 panels piped to the roof and with a 1/2 hp pump. If we had 3 consecutive days over 80, the water temp would reach about 80. We are in Oregon and all in all, we were happy (although more warm water days would be nice).

This year we've installed an 18'x52" round with a 1 hp pump and the same solar panels. Today we opened the plumbing to the panels and the new filter is pushing the water through them so fast that it's barely heating.

What is the best way to determine if our setup will work? Any other ideas? The 2 panels are parallel with water going from: pool, pump/filter, lower panel, upper panel, pool.

Also, I just want to say that the people on this site are the best. I rarely post but lurk a lot. I found you two years ago in the middle of a baq nightmare and you've made my pool life enjoyable and easy!!

[CarlD]

Ok, I have a couple of questions:

1) When the water is running SO fast it seems like it's barely heating up at all are the panels themselves cool to the touch?

2) when you turn off the panels or the pump do the panels now get hot to the touch?

If the answer to both questions is "YES" then everything is working FINE--all the heat is being "sucked out" of the panels and getting into your pool. You are getting all the BTUs into your pool VERY effectively. If your pool is not heating then you are fighting heat loss somewhere else. Are you using a solar cover?

If the answer to either question is "no" then something is wrong. If 1) is no, then there is a plumbing problem.
if 2) is no, then either your panels are not in the sun (!) or something else is bleeding off their heat (but I've never heard of that or how it could happen).

Don't be fooled by the idea that the water in the panels needs to "heat up" first. As long as it's warmer than the pool (even just a little) it's doing its job. People don't realize that the MORE water you move and the less it heats up, the more heat you are "robbing" from the panels.

Think about a car's radiator and engine--the faster the water circulates the more heat it pulls out of the engine that the radiator can dissipate. You are doing exactly the opposite with your solar panels--pulling heat from them for the water, so the circulation is good.

In fact, if your water gets too hot, people with solar panels run them at night instead and they act exactly like the car radiator to cool the pool.

[Watermom]

I am going to reiterate Carl's question about whether or not you are using a solar cover at night. It significantly reduces the amount of heat your pool loses at night. Without one, each night you will pretty much lose most of the heat your pool has gained during the day.

[NWMNMom]

And...2 of the 2x20s should heat an 18' pool just fine unless its just not sunny/warm outside. But, we REPEAT - keep the heat IN by using a cover at night or when its not sunny/warm. Use a diverter so you don't run water through the panels when there isn't warm sun on them. Never run the pump or water through them at night unless you want to cool the water off.

[shanode]

Thank you for the replies!

Yes, I have a solar cover.

Yes, the panels are cool to the touch when the water is running through them.

Yes, the panels got warm to the touch when I turned the water off to them.

Yes, I have a diverter installed so I can turn the panels "on" and "off" at will.

The current water temp is about 68. When the panels are "on", the water coming into the pool is about 2 degrees warmer. Last year with the smaller pump, hence less water moving through the panels, the water coming into the pool was about 10 degrees warmer.

Am I correct in understanding that since more water is moving through the panels, even though the water coming into the pool is a lot cooler (than last year) that the water will heat faster?

Any guesstimates on how long it will take to heat the pool to about 80 degrees, assuming the panels are in the sun about 7 hours per day?

Also, with the diverter, I can adjust the flow of water to the panels. Someone suggested I reduce the flow of water into the panels. Is that a good idea? If so, how will I know if I'm causing too much back pressue to the pump?

[JohnT]

You are seeing the classic temperature versus energy issue. A small amount of water at a 10 degree increase versus a lot of water at a 2 degree increase results in at least the same amount of energy added to the pool. It will probably be more energy because of the better efficiency gained by removing energy from the panels more quickly.

[CarlD]

Heaters are measured in BTUs, not degrees. British Thermal Units.

1 BTU is the amount of heat energy necessary to raise one pound of water one degree Farenheit. I have a LOT more heat energy in my pool at 82 degrees than in a burning match at 750-800 degrees.

So if last year the water was 10 degrees warmer but the flow this year is 10 times faster at 2 degrees warmer, you are getting double the heat energy.

[tphaggerty]

As per Carl, you can roughly figure energy into the pool at flow rate * temp differential. This doesn't tell you how much energy is going in, but it gives you a way to compare whether a given flow rate is better than another.

From my experience and from my research, it seems pretty clear that you want as much flow as you can possibly put through the panels without stressing them. Most panels are rated to handle flows up to about 8 to 10 gpm (for 4 foot wide panels) - BUT, the efficiency curves drop off above about 5 gpm. So, most solar installers figure 5 gpm per panel (in a parallel configuration).

So, if you have only a few panels, you can run a 2 speed pump at low speed (if there isn't too much head loss) or you can use a diverter with a 3 way valve to adjust the amount of water going through the panels. If you can touch the panels, you can just keep increasing the water flow until the panels are cool to the touch.

If you have enough panels, you can pretty much run wide open. I run my 14 panels on a multi-speed 1.5hp pump at close to max, with a calculated flow rate of about 80 gpm (and go to really low speed when the panels are switched off). WooHoo! I'm at 85 degrees in NY in May, my neighbors are only now opening their pools to water in the mid-60s. The water coming out of the panels is noticeably warmer (on a sunny day) than the pool, but maybe only 1 or 2 degrees warmer than the pool.

[CarlD]

My limiting factor in my solar panels is how much pressure they can take without leaking. That's really it. At low speed, I can open them all the way, but at high speed just one turn of the valves is all they tolerate.

Still, on a good sunny day I can get 8-9 degrees increase. I was in this past Saturday in 82 deg water and 68 deg air temp, and that's in the NE part of the US.