AG Pool wiring and other headaches

[matt4x4]

I would ground the pool to the rods, reason being, if lightning ever does strike and you do NOT have rods, under certain scenarios, it is not grounded well enough just by sitting on the "ground" (meaning dirt). if the "ground" is not wet enough, lightning will not travel into it, it's the moisture content in the "ground" that allows it to act as a grounding point, the dirt itself does pretty much nothing, the rods ensure that you are always grounding through soil that has moisture content, so essentially they are just an extension of all your pool metal into permanently wet/damp "ground".
Without the rods, If lightning strikes during a dry spell, the path of least resistance would be through the circuit ground wire (the thin one) back to the panel and into the grounding rod located at the house, however, this path would only be available to the lightning for a mili second because that's all it would take to burn up the wire, at that point you would no longer have a path to ground - therefore, to be absolutely safe, I would use the ground rods.

Grounding your pool through ground rods has absolutely NO effect on the bonding aspect of the pool, bonding is a completely different procedure meant for a completely different scenario, but still brings everything back to a ground rod at your house.
Bonding anything metal is done to ensure that if this metal becomes energized, it is safely taken to ground, eliminating any electrical potential within that item. However, bonding is not done for lightning strikes, it is done for electrical malfuntions where the current is much lower and will not cook your #12 wires. Metal things INSIDE your house will likely NEVER get struck by lightning, metal things outside of your house are always at risk, I looked at my Natural Gas tank located outside my house last night, I found a #8 wire leading directly to ground from the tank's body. I looked at my Electrical meter outside my house, another #8 directly to the house ground rod. When I installed my Satellite dish, it was not just recommended, it was specified to ground it within a certain number of feet otherwise the warranty would be null and void.
My pool instructions specified it as well, yes, it's not electrical code, but the pool manufacturer has nothing monetary to gain from this recommendation, yet they still recommend you do it.

BTW - Anything bonded within your house like plumbing, gas lines etc., goes DIRECTLY to the house ground rod through a minimum #8 wire, why would it be such a bad thing to do the same at the pool instead of relying on a thin #12 wire to bring it all the way back to the house just to let the #8 located there bring it to the ground rod?
The code specifies that a ground rod is NOT required, however, that does not mean you cannot install one, codes are MINIMUM giudelines you have to follow, however, like anything, going above and beyond the call of duty is not a bad thing.
I live in Canada, our electrical codes are different, usually our construction codes are stricter that those in the USA, I have not had time to look up our electrical codes on this issue, but this is going to make me do so as soon as i can, I WILL post back with my findings on that.

[denanbob]

My DH just got done sledgehammering 10ft copper rods into the ground at six different points around our pool. I don't even know HOW we would begin to get those out. We searching for how to ground a pool and this is what we found. Now I'm finding out this may not be the case. He also put little copper connectors at the base of each of our posts/pillars that hold the pool up. He then is threading #6 copper wire through each connector and ground all the way around the pool. So it will go connector/ground rod/connector/ground rod, etc................Please tell me we don't have to rip this all out. If anything, is it just overkill?

Matt - so you're saying we're just fine with what we've done even though it's not required by code, right? Thanks sooooooooo much for the great explanations. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out.

[prh129]

I would be interested in getting JohnT's take on this as he seems to have a lot of experience with this.

Although #8 is heavier than #12, I'm not convinced that it too would not be able to handle the current from a lightning hit. Lightning rods use #4 so I suspect that the pool bonding connections do not take lightning into consideration.

In an earlier post, JohnT talked about not grounding a circuit at more than one point. I understand the concept of current flowing through earth in this case but I don't know what the implications are.

I'm just trying to understand the concepts so since this thread started with a discussion about codes for wiring it seems appropriate to do so.

Peter

[matt4x4]

Well, this is a real grey area with the NEC, first off, when it comes to bonding and grounding, they are two different things, but are essentially the same thing.

Bonding means the connecting of metal object together. But in order to do proper bonding, the bonding has to tie to the Ground rod of the electrical system, otherwise the bonding is incomplete and essentailly does nothing other than making everything metal live when an electrical malfuntion occurs.

Grounding really just means connecting your electrical system's ground to an acceptable grounding location, that being the ground rod.

Now, I know John said not to ground to numerous points, this is where it gets really vague because the NEC states that you have to but are not limited to having ONE ground rod, one is the minimum, but it is acceptable to have secondary ground rods, they have to be tied together or be connected to common ground.
Since your pool rod and your house rod are in the same ground, and are connected to the same bonding wire (remeber that 12 guage back to the panel...) they are essentially tied together twice, once through the 12 guage, once through the ground/dirt. I believe the ground does not count since there is no sure way of telling whether or not the ground the pool sits on is connected to the ground the house sits on unless you have a geological study performed, and another factor is the distance between the two rods which could be so large that the resistance in the ground/dirt becomes big enough to make them two different grounds.

From what I can get out of the code (interpretation) you are doing NOTHING wrong by adding a ground rod to the pool, you are actually just ensuring a good solid working ground connection at that location exists, this really just comes into play for such acts as lightning, I'm not sure what I have for guage at the pool ground rod, but it's easily the thickness of a finger, looking at the other metal objects that are grounded around the outside of my house, it looked like #8 was the common denominator for what was used, then again, that's probably also the spool the electrician had for doing the inside bonding, so he just used it on the outside grounds as well.
I can tell you one thing, the house we have (custom built 3 yrs before we bought it) was extremely overbuilt, everything, and i mean everything, was absolutely perfect when we got it, there were a lot of "don't need it but nice to have it" things and the "wow, now that's a good idea" things, so it makes me think it was all done above and beyond the basic requirements.


It's all very confusing, it all ties to ground in the end,

[roxy]

May I add.....you shouldn't be in the pool during a lightning storm. Sorry couldn't help myself.

[matt4x4]

Roxy - I totally understand that, but when parents are out and teenagers are home, common sense sometimes goes out the window! Alsao, sometimes, it seems like a thunderstorm is a loooong ways away, you're in teh pool, starting to think it might be time to get out because of the approaching storm, when BANG, a rogue lightning hit. I understand it's probably a 1 in a billion chances, but hey, dung happens....

[roxy]

You are absolutely right...especially about the teens.......I remember , I was one once.