AG Pool wiring and other headaches

[JohnT]

I really just need to bond the uprights/foot plates with the proper wire and have it long enough to reach my pump in case it was replaced with one not double insulated. Is that correct in a nutshell? No attaching it to a ground rod. No attaching it to the pump ckt ground. Just make use all the pool parts and anything metal around the pool is electrically connected.

Yes, that is correct.

[haze_1956]

I thought I was following this but those last few posts got me reconfused.

Is this right ?

Bonding - Connecting a number of metal objects so they will have a common electrical potential, but not to be grounded.

If this is correct, wouldn't the metal housing of a double insulated pump still have to be bonded, if within a set distance from pool?

[JohnT]

I thought I was following this but those last few posts got me reconfused.

Is this right ?

Bonding - Connecting a number of metal objects so they will have a common electrical potential, but not to be grounded.

If this is correct, wouldn't the metal housing of a double insulated pump still have to be bonded, if within a set distance from pool?

Double insulated pump motors are specifically exempted from bonding in the NEC. In order for a pump to be labelled "double-insulated", it must be tested and evaluated for this when it is tested by UL or other certifying organization. Small items are generally considered exempt from bonding requirements if it is unlikely they could become energized.

[denanbob]

My DH just got done sledgehammering 10ft copper rods into the ground at six different points around our pool. I don't even know HOW we would begin to get those out. We searching for how to ground a pool and this is what we found. Now I'm finding out this may not be the case. He also put little copper connectors at the base of each of our posts/pillars that hold the pool up. He then is threading #6 copper wire through each connector and ground all the way around the pool. So it will go connector/ground rod/connector/ground rod, etc................Please tell me we don't have to rip this all out. If anything, is it just overkill?

[denanbob]

Any comments on our grounding scenario? Good OR bad? Or do I not even want to know? LOL!

[prh129]

I am not an electrician but from the information in JohnT's posts, the purpose of bonding is to tie all of the metal parts around the pool together but NOT connect them to ground so you can leave the 10 ft copper rods in the ground but don't connect the bonding wire to them. Only connect the bonding wire to the pool and the pump motor housing.

Peter

[denanbob]

Thanks Peter. I wonder why we shouldn't connect the bonding wire to the ground rods. Anyone know? We know 2 electricians and neither one of them knows anything about pool wiring. Maybe because not many people have pools in Ohio since it's always raining and cold in the summer and you can't swim anyway? Or is that only because we put a pool in that the weather is like that? LOL!

[matt4x4]

Grounding a pool is kinda funny, my instructions told me to put a ground rod in and ground the pool to it, so I did, and while I was bonding everything, it occured to me that through bonding everything to the pool structure, I have now automatically grounded everything too since I separately grounded the pool structure but it is all one.
Now, here's the reason you're not supposed to put a ground at the pool:
Your house allready has a ground rod to which ALL your electrical is grounded (including that line to the pool). BUT after speaking to an electrician friend of mine, he recommended that I do put a rod in at the pool as the instructions said BECAUSE the pool is so far removed from my house that the ground wire being several hundreds of feet long may well melt if my pool was hit by lightning, thus zapping everyone in it, having a ground rod close by with a heavy guage wire lead, the chances of melting the wire are greatly reduced. (it's a weakest link scenario). SOOOO, to make a long and complicated story short, he said that I'm essentially grounding to the same point anyways (the dirt on my property), and am really just insuring a secure and safe ground by putting a rod at the pool.
He stated that this should be done on every steel structure outside since teh ground wire in conduit does not handle huge amounts of current, any lightning strike can fry it even if the line is only 20 feet long, and that's really what you're protecting against, mother nature, the GFCI and bonding takes care of electrical issues that could shock you.
Hope this helps!

[denanbob]

That does help, thanks Matt! However, should I change anything about what we've done or just leave it alone and know it's probably overkill?

[matt4x4]

If you don't connect to the ground rod at the pool, you are STILL connected to the ground rod at the house, so is all yourt BONDED equipment since anything electrical like the motor casing/housing will be grounded allready, you're essentially grounding your bonding, EXCEPT you're doing it through a tiny wire that may not withstand a lightning strike (and that's the route a lightning strike would take).
In my opinion, you're safer with a ground rod or six or ten, like I stated before, anything electrical that goes wrong, your pool is tied to your pump, to your GFCI, to your Electrical Ground (which is also teh house ground for anything metal), so anything goes wron electrically speaking, you're safe, the GFCI will pop.
A scenario of why you'd need this is that if your DH would be mowing the lawn while you're in the pool and he accidentally mows over the pump cord, the cut/live end hits the pool, voila GFCI goes "pop" and you live. Electricity would trip the GFCI since it's wired to do so (whether or not you have a ground stake).

A scenario where the ground rods save you is when all electrical is OK, you're swimming (again! Is that ALL you do???), a rogue lightning stike hits the pool, the ground rods take care of it and you live (again! - what do you have, 9 lives or something??)
Oh, BTW - In this scenario, the GFCI may be fried, but hey, you got to live, so that's not a bad tradeoff.....then again, you may want to verify that statement with DH.

Since your pool is sitting on the ground, the second the ground is wet, you essentially have a ground rod anyways since water conducts electricity.
The reason they have you install RODS is so that there is always good continuity to ground - meaning, the rod penetrates the ground so far that the earth it's in is always wet or damp at minimum meaning it will ALWAYS conduct electricity.

So the question to you is - do you feel lucky?