My Ponder of the Day: leak detection invention

[elsie]

I wonder why no creative soul has developed a leak detection tool--a pole with a cable and a trigger--whereby a pool owner could lower it into their deep end, squeeze the trigger, and dispense dye in order to find a leak?

I'm starting to think I may have to shell out a crazy amount of money to have a leak detection person come to find my liner leak because by the time I paddle to the bottom of the deep end (9 ft.), holding my breath, there will likely be too much turbulence and not enough air time to wait for the turbulence to clear and then squeeze the dye around even one perimeter section. Unless, of course, the leak is in the shallow end where I should be able to use a snorkel and mask and reach to the bottom with the dye in hand.

If the leak's in the deep end, I'm thinking maybe I could carry one of my 10 or 12-lb. barbells in one hand so as to create less turbulence, assuming that's enough to bring me down without paddling. Then again with the weight maybe I could put on my wetsuit and go in (water's only about 73 right now). If the 12-lb. weight isn't enough, though, because wetsuits are so bouyant, I'll just have to wait another week or two until the water warms up.

I thought I had a leak with the solid winter cover on because I was losing about an inch a month, and I don't recall in any of these past 4 or 5 seasons having to add water during the winter. Now that it's uncovered, I'm losing a good inch every 3 or 4 days -- way too much for evaporation, and which makes me think the leak is getting bigger. Since my liner is at the end of it's life (but still hanging in), I don't like the idea of all that water sitting behind it somewhere, so I may try my idea in the next few days. Wish me luck, but if anyone has any other ideas, I'd be glad to hear about them!

[CanuckPool]

Sounds like an untapped market. Do you know what the leak detection guys use? Maybe there is something commercially on the market that is available, other than that it sounds like a homemade job is in order. ITs almost like you need one of those small taylor test kit bottles filled with red dye on the end of a long pole with a mechanism to trigger it underwater...

How about modifying one of those camera lens cleaner puffer things, you know the ones that have that brush on one end and the bladder you squeeze on the other end. You could take the brush off and fit a thin clear tube to the end (like those fish aquairium pump tubes) then you could get one of those above mentioned test bottles, put a hole in the bottom and attach the other end of the tube to it, seal it and fill the bottle with red dye tape it on the end of a long broom handle and voila, you have a way to deliver dye at a distance, and the bottle tip should only meter out a small amount of dye when you squeeze the bladder.

[Poconos]

Hi Elsie,
Sorry to let the wind out of your sails but check my posts in these threads

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=101


http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=561

What I found is even turbulence due to sun heating can be a problem. When I did the leak chasing I did it in the early part of the day before the sun started heating things up. Even moving the pole along the bottom causes turbulence. Slow and easy is the rule. Even fussed with trying to build an electronic detector but didn't get anywhere and finding the blasted leak by any means was a priority. I've also suggested several time that beets are a good, cheap, harmless dye source. Chop up raw beets, boil, and use the red water. Then eat the beets.
Hey, if you can come up with a patentable idea go for it.

Al

[elsie]

Al, very, very smart, from the leak detection contraption you built to your method of "noninvasive" patching. Brilliant, in fact, right down to using beet juice for the dye (and then eating them). Marvelous Al is what your name should be.

I'm not what you would call a technical-oriented person, and added to that I have problems with integrating spatial concepts. It would probably help if I knew what a "long thin piece of auto vacuum hose" is? But reading all this got me to thinking, stubborn brain notwithstanding.

I recently used my garden hose with a garden sprayer to spray a bleach solution while on my extension ladder to clean my lovely metal roof that acquires mold over the winter (this is, after all, Alabama). Why couldn't I use my garden hose with the garden sprayer (filled with beet juice instead of food coloring because I'm going to go through a lot of the stuff)? Turn the faucet on every so slightly, and slowly navigate it around the deep end? Your method, Al, is no doubt better because you have the rigid PVC pole, but I just can't understand how you got the dye to come out of the garden sprayer without it hooked up to some source that either pushed water through it or air. Wait! Perhaps a long thin piece of auto vacuum hose pushes air? If not, what mechanism pushes the dye out of the sprayer?

Canuck, I've been googling and the only leak detection device out there is an electronic one, and they're so expensive they don't even tell you the price! Again, I'm at a loss to understand your method. I have no clue what a "camera lens cleaner puffer" thing is and, just like my problem with visualizing a "long thin piece of auto vacuum hose," I get totally lost in the method after that.

I just printed off directions for a Bucket Test. While I'm pretty sure I have a leak, I'm not 100% sure. It seems the prudent thing to do. I hope this test can be trusted. Then, if I indeed have a leak, I'll first check the shallow end with my mask and snorkel. If it's in the deep end, then maybe I'll try the garden sprayer on the end of the garden hose method if ya'll think it would work, checking out the main drain, returns, and then seams. By the way, is the main drain at the bottom of the deep end what is used when you need to empty the pool to have a new liner installed? I can't think of any other thing it could be for. Otherwise, you'd use a sump pump and flood your neighbors out.

I sure appreciate you both sharing your ideas. Too bad we all don't live in the same neighborhood. We could have a leak detection party. And then eat beets afterwards.

[matt4x4]

Quote: "Too bad we all don't live in the same neighborhood. We could have a leak detection party. And then eat beets afterwards. "

too funny! not sure how good of a time it'll be though.......I guess it depends on how you pickle those beets!

[elsie]

Why, pink margaritas, of course!

[Poconos]

Elsie,
Guess I wasn't too clear. I wasn't thinking of a sprayer you hook to a garden hose. The one I have is a $20 or so Home Depot, 1 gallon, pump type. Has a pump on it to pressurize the container. Jury rig the thin vacuum hose to the nozzle with electrical tae and silicone seal. Pull the trigger and the pressure shoots the liquid down the hose. You can easily regulate the amount you squirt.
Al
BTW: Here's a recent link to one I was looking at

http://www.leaktools.com/mm5/merchan...egory_Code=VLD

[CanuckPool]

lets all mock up our inventions, head over to elise's house and see who's is the best! and then eat beets afterwards!

[matt4x4]

Elsie - you up for poking some holes in that perfectly good liner????

[elsie]

Matt: NO!!!!!!

Well, I finally called a leak detection service. They want $225 + cost of patch to dive with tanks and find leak. Ridiculous! Then I had a brainstorm. Relatively new neighbors (a couple) and I have become fast friends. They use to be quite active scuba diving. Although they don't have tanks, they say they can rent one for less than $20. I already have five vials of food coloring and a patch, but I like the beet idea as well, assuming they're in season; if not I could use canned beet juice. I told them I would pay them $100 (whether leak is found or not).

A few years ago I had a leak and got a guy to drive some 100 miles round trip to fix. At the time he told me it never takes him more than five minutes to find a leak. It was winter and he donned a drysuit and went under the solid winter cover. He found the leak (on the floor of the shallow end at wall location) in two minutes and patched it. He only charged $75, but I recall insisting on paying him $125 for his services. He made me promise I would not "tell anyone" because it would hurt his business (umm…). Lots of integrity. Unfortunately, he's so busy in his neck of the woods he won't drive so far again.

I'm sure that guy had developed special skills, but what would they be? What kind of directions can I give my neighbors? Just go slow and squirt a continuous stream of dye? Because the guy who found that first leak was under the winter cover, I couldn't see him in action, of course. Any tips would be appreciated!