Want to see our clay??

[matt4x4]

Try calling gravel pits or just the local soil trucking outfits, concrete plants usually only have or get what they use and screenings/crusher run are rarely used under/in concrete, pits and truckers might have more access to a more diverse selection of materials.

[hoffmans]

Hey Matt4x4
Thanks for chiming in w/ the info. I think the screenings would come in very handy if we can get our hands on some.

Tom wants me ask you a question.
I seem to remember you saying that you had to build up the ground for your pool to get it higher than the river. Did you use crusher run under your rails instead of patio blocks? We are planning on pouring concrete footers instead of using the blocks.

Tom came home from work & we were out there till dark shoveling wet clay trying to get it smooth. Even after it dries out it is going to be hard to get smooth. Looks like it is going to take longer than we thought.



I don't know how you guys do this all the time.

~Hoffmans

[matt4x4]

Wow, good memeory - luckily, I don't do it all the time, just for myself and have helped neighbours.
Yes, I had to build up my ground some, for two reasons - one - the pool top rail was to sit level with the top of my raised septic bed, we were eventually going to build a deck at that ground level over to the pool - essentially making it look and accessible like an inground. Second, every inch helps because of my creek that comes to within 50 feet of the pool and could flood the entire lawn it sits on when we have storms. I had the clay moved in from another section of my property the year prior to building the pool, this way it had time to settle over the winter.
I used a ring of crusher run about 6-12 inches thick for my wall foundation, no footings, personally, i don't like footings, I've thought this over many times and they just don't make any sense to me, ESPECIALLY in a frost environment.
The clay gets very wet in the fall, winter frost really expands it, essentiall lifting the entire ground by what can be several inches, the footings can be distorted easily by frost - by that I mean they will exert uneven pressure up on your wall and most likely no longer be level once they settle after the frost leaves the ground, at least the screenings are workable, and pretty much settle flat again because they are able to shift with the heaving of the frost, dispersing pressure upwards more evenly.
Another reason I don't see any need for footings is that the pressures exerted by the water in your pool are not directed to the posts and down into the ground through them, here's how the pressures work (more or less):
Most pressure is straight down due to gravity - so it's compressing the dirt under your pool.
Some pressure is outwards, since the wall is the structural component, most of the force there is trying to expand the perimeter of your wall, so the stresss point here would be the seam - thus all those bolts holding it together.
The bottom rail is really just there as a spacer for teh posts and as a flat receiver for the wall edge, it also helps disperse upward pressure from frost more evenly over a larger section of wall.
The posts are just there to hold and join the top rails together and transfer any downward pressure exerted on the top rail to the ground so the wall does not get affected - this pressure would only be external forces such as a person standing/leaning on the top rail. The top rail is also there to give the wall rigidity and stop it from becoming an oval through uneven water motion (kids roughhousing) or people leaning on the wall from outside or inside the wall - however, if you remove all outside forces - whether it's frost or human, your pool is perfectly fine to just sit there full of water even if all you used from the entire kit was the wall, bolts and liner - unless you incurred really high winds which can be interpreted as outside forces pushing on the walls and moving your water more that circulation would.
I hope this helps you some, personally, I would NOT pour concrete, especially with your soil, sandy soil might be a different story since it drains very well and there's less frost heave due to that, but clay is a very uncontrolled environment that works in mysterious ways to somehow spit up solid objects every spring in random patterns.

[hrsdennis]

To further illustrate Matt's last statements, Wall Mart sold a pool a few years back that was literaly a wall, nuts and bolts, a liner and some coping. They came in 15' and 18' by 36" and 42". These pools brought new meaning to my mantra. Perfectly round and perfectly level. If they weren't they did not stand a chance.

It is also safe to remove a few top rails from a pool full of water if minor liner adjustments need to be made. They are not there to keep the pool from falling down.

Later, Dennis

[hoffmans]

WOW!
Thats a heck of a post. Thanks Matt! Your info was very informative and helpful. I hope alot of people read it and can learn from it.

DH on his was now to get Limestone Screenings. We know a guy who knows a place and who knows what to get- so we are getting some.
YEAH.
Time to get the show on the road!
Rained like heck yesterday. Supposed to be sunny and 80 today.
Will get pictures up next.

Thanks again for your help.
~Hoffmans

[kaydee]

We had the same problem in our yard. Ended up pouring a 32 foot circle of concrete 4 inches thick and then put some styrofoam on the bottom after setting up the walls. Smoothest floor I have ever been on. Hope this helps.