help with adjusting please

[poolhelp101]

i quit the pool store in mid seaon last year after finding this forum. and this season i haven't added anything except the bleach until i had the metal problem, then i added the pool magnet plus. i don't understand what i'm doing wrong but apparently something. so do i now not add the borax until after i use the floc and try to get that cleared up first? sorry for yet another question. thanks

[mbar]

No, put in the borax now, you want to have your ph back at 7.0, to 7.2 for now. I just looked up pool magent plus and it lists it's ingreadient as "sodium hydrochlorite" which I looked up and said it was basically bleach here are the two links:
http://www.bioguard.com/msds/docs/1261041.PDF

http://www.answers.com/topic/sodium-hypochlorite

So I don't know why it says it will lift metal stains - it should lift any organic stains. It also says that if can cause cloudiness in the pool water. So I don't think you did anything wrong. I would stick to Jack's Magic the pink or purple stuff, or metal free, or metal magic - these are the ones I have tried and they all work. I will try to do some more research.

As for your main question - I would add the borax to get your ph up, and then do the flocculant. This way while the water is standing still it is not acidic. If after the water clears and you still have stains, then I will help you get rid of them. Don't worry, your pool will be fine soon

[waste]

Hi Marie, good to see you back! Hope your winter was good!! Got your pm on this and the MSDS's don't lie, that magnet is just bleach, I suppose that BIO-Guard thinks it's better to have the metals stain the walls, etc rather than be in suspension

I have all the faith in the world that you will be able to help PH101, but if I can help in any way, I'll keep my eye on this thread

[waterbear]

i use an aqua chem test kit. when i put the first solution in, it might turn just a hint of, a very little hint of yellow. then when you add the second solution it remains the same. my readings this morning are cl 5.0 ph 6.8 and ta still 150. it may take a while to get a water fountain, do i still just continue trying to aerate with the one jet or try to increase the ph another way? also, the pool has cleared quite alot, however it is still hazy. please advise and thank you

There is a documented problem with the hardness test in this kit. I believe the indicator is being bleached by high chlorine levels because if you add a drop or two of the thiosufate reagent from the total alkalinity test (the first reagent for that test) the hardness test develops the proper color. This test only seems to work properly if the chlorine is 3 ppm or less. Also this is NOT a calcium hardness test but a total (calcium and magnesium) hardness test so it really isn't that useful.

[waterbear]

No, put in the borax now, you want to have your ph back at 7.0, to 7.2 for now. I just looked up pool magent plus and it lists it's ingreadient as "sodium hydrochlorite" which I looked up and said it was basically bleach here are the two links:
http://www.bioguard.com/msds/docs/1261041.PDF

http://www.answers.com/topic/sodium-hypochlorite

So I don't know why it says it will lift metal stains - it should lift any organic stains. It also says that if can cause cloudiness in the pool water. So I don't think you did anything wrong. I would stick to Jack's Magic the pink or purple stuff, or metal free, or metal magic - these are the ones I have tried and they all work. I will try to do some more research.

Marie, that is the MSDS for the Pool Magnet demo kit chlorine solution, Not for Pool magnet plus. Here is the MSDS for that

http://www.bioguard.com/msds/docs/123450.pdf

It is a phosponic acid derivative (HEDP) as Richard said above just like Jack's Magic, Metal Magic and about 95% of all the other seqeserants on the market.

I do not know exactly what the demo kit is for but It contains the bleach solution and an iron solution so I think it is to show how the pool magnet will prevent iron staining from high chlorine levels for dealers to use to sell the product.

[mbar]

Oh, my mistake, I just googled Pool Magnet Plus, and that was the one that come up first - at least that makes more sense Poolhelp, maybe if you can go somewhere and get your water tested, you can see if you have high calcium. But the floc should work. Aslo when using a metal sequestering agent they are highly acidic and can be what is keeping your ph low. You will need to add some borax to get it up to 7.0 - sometimes it takes a lot if there is a lot of acid in the product. So your ph may even be lower than 6.8. Keep us informed - these guys(waterbear, wate and chem geek) really know their chemistry Thanks

[poolhelp101]

i will get to a pool store to test my water, hopefully tomorrow. after about 16 hours with the floc, the pool has cleared about 20%. i can see the bottom of the pool in the shallow end and this end is not that clear but i can see the bottom. i cannot see the bottom at all in the deep end. cl is 5, ph is 6.8. should the pool be any clearer than it is now after adding the floc? do i turn the filter back on after the 24 hour wait period even if it isn't any clearer? and if i am to turn it back on, do i add the borax? anything else i need to do?

[mbar]

You should have put the borax in before the floc. It is not good to let the acidic water lay on the vinyl liner. Since you keep testing 6.8, and used a lot of stain treatment, the ph may even be lower than 6.8. If it were my pool I would vacuum to waste what you can on the bottom. This will probably stir up some sediment, don't worry. After you vacuum to waste, add more fill water, ADD BORAX, keep filter running, check ph and don't stop ADDING BORAX until you reach a ph of at least 7.0 - leave 2 hours in between tests. When you get the ph back up, turn the filter off and let the water settle. You should still have enough floc in there to continue the process. Leave the filter off till you see more clearing of the water, even if you go to 24 hours. THen vacuum to waste again, or filter if the water is too expensive. I would really try to vacuum to waste to get it out of there - make sure you backwash the filter well if you just vacuum to filter. If the water is still cloudy, turn the filter off over night. Keep doing this until the water clears. The important thing is to get the ph back up to 7, the alkalinity back down (keep your return jets bubbling on the water as much as you can till you get the fountain). Get your water checked, and post numbers. Once you get the water rebalanced, you will be fine - Something is suspended in the water making it cloudy, It will take time to get it all filtered out - you just need some patience. You don't want to shock yet in case it is metals that are suspended in the water, that will fall out if the chlorine gets too high. It will just take time, but get the ph up

[poolhelp101]

i did get the ph to 7.2 before i put the floc in.
right now, the pool has cleared more, i can see the drain now.
in 3 hours the pool will have set for 24 hrs. i am going to start to vacuum, which i do dread cause i just know it's gonna cloud it up more. but i realize i just have to keep at it. the only reason i was not wanting to vauum to waste was because i loose so much water and then i will have to refill, no expense involved, just worry that i will add more metals and be back having to deal with that issue. after i do this and have to start adding water, should i add something to treat for the metals then too? and if i am to treat for metals do i also add bleach and borax at the same time too? thank you all so much for staying with me and helping to advise me.

p.m. i vacummed to waste, added more water, bleach and borax. cl now 6, ph 7.0. have the jet turned up to bubble. i didn't add anything for metals as i was unsure whether to add at the same time as the borax and bleach and i have shut the filter off now hoping it will settle some more. .

[waterbear]

If you added floc and you can vacuum to waste it is a good idea to do so. The floc can clog up your filter.