help with adjusting please

[drband]

hopefully some other folks will add some suggestions. I think your metals problem is related to your ph and shock level too, but I don't have the knowledge to help you.

[poolhelp101]

i think you are right but i don't know enough either and i don't want to do anything to screw it up. i really do appreciate you answering and trying to help me and i too hope that someone will answer that does know so i can get on this before it gets worse. so for now all i can do is wait and hope that one of them will answer and tell me what to do before the problem gets worse. thanks

[chem geek]

You didn't post your Calcium Hardness (CH) number, but if it is also high like your Total Alkalinity (TA), then raising the pH will make your water cloudy. I suggest you aerate the water to raise the pH (I agree with others that you need to get your pH raised, but you also want to lower your TA) -- don't add Borax and certainly do not add pH Up (sodium carbonate). From this thread it sounds like you have a vinyl liner so your CH may not be high, but that depends on your fill water -- if it's from a well, it could be high and it sounded like you accidentally used well water that didn't go through a water softener. That's why it would be good to test it and post the number.

So aerate your water to get the pH to the 7.0 to 7.2 range then keep aerating and add acid to keep the pH down and monitor the TA level. When it's down below 100, you can keep aerating to get the pH to 7.5

The BioGuard Pool Magnet Plus product you are using is a phosphonate which means that though it will sequester the metals in your pool, it will also make for great algae food. There are better metal sequestering products on the market that are not phosphonates such as Pool Stain Treat (by the way, Jack's Magic Pink Stuff has the same phosphonate main ingredient as Pool Magnet Plus as does Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff and The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff). At any rate, you've already used the Pool Magnet so don't worry about that. It's not a big problem; just a less than optimal solution.

As for stains that may still remain on the vinyl, you could add more sequestrant (Pool Magnet Plus) and gently brush the stain area, but if the stain doesn't come off then you might need to use a stain remover. The problem is that stain removers have some form of acidity (such as ascorbic acid and oxalic acid) and that's not great for your vinyl, but you may not have much of a choice. I suggest getting the rest of your pool water chemistry in line, keep your chlorine level maintained, and lightly brush the stained area. If the stain persists even after adding the extra Pool Magnet Plus, then you can consider a specific stain removal product. If you use a stain removal product (one of the acids I mentioned), it will require the chlorine level to be very low since chlorine reacts with these acids (these acids are reducing agents and attempt to reduce the ferric form of iron to ferrous which is more readily sequestered). So if you need to do this, I suggest using a PolyQuat 60 algaecide before letting the chlorine drop to near zero and then applying the ascorbic acid stain removal. You could try Jack's Magic Iron, Cobalt & Spot Etching Stuff aka "Stain Solution #1" which is a non-acidic reducing agent. It also requires chlorine levels to be below 1 ppm FC so the use of the algaecide before use would be a good idea. Be aware that you already have the equivalent of Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff (same as The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff) in your pool so you don't need to add that (as per their FAQ instructions).

However, it may be that you have so much metal in your water that it will be hard to remove stains. I know that others have responded with good advice, but am wondering if anyone out there has had metal stains on vinyl and successfully removed them without damaging their vinyl.

Richard

[waterbear]

The BioGuard Pool Magnet Plus product you are using is a phosphonate which means that though it will sequester the metals in your pool, it will also make for great algae food. There are better metal sequestering products on the market that are not phosphonates such as Pool Stain Treat (by the way, Jack's Magic Pink Stuff has the same phosphonate main ingredient as Pool Magnet Plus as does Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff and The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff). At any rate, you've already used the Pool Magnet so don't worry about that. It's not a big problem; just a less than optimal solution.



Richard

Richard, Richard, Richard!!!!
I hope you are not buying into the phosphate thing! Using a phosphonic acid based seqesterant will not promote an algae bloom if chlorine levels are proper! Removing phosphates will not eliminate algae unless PHOSPHATES ARE THE LIMITING FACTOR! (relatively rare) Most pools have nitrate nitrogen in them and that is also algae food but we don't test for nitrates or nitrites in pools! My own pool has an orthophosphate reading of between 2000 and 3000 ppb and it has never had an algae bloom! (and this was way before I added borates to the watar!) My own personal experiences with staining in my fiberglass pool is that the phosphonic acid based seqesterants work much better at keeping the stains from returning then the EDTA based chelating agents.

Edit: Much of what I know of algae blooms also comes from 30+years experience in keeping marine and reef aquariums also!

[chem geek]

You are right and I apologize. I do agree that phosphates are the last thing to worry about. It was more of a knee-jerk reaction to actually adding more phosphates to the pool, but many pools have lots of phosphates and with chlorine you don't get algae. Sorry. Lost my head there for a moment.

Richard

[waterbear]

Poolhelp 101, you say you have brown stains. First thing to do is find out if they are metal or organic. Hold a vitamin C tablet on the stain and see if it disappears. If it does then you probably have iron staining and ascorbic acid will remove it. If you read through the Stains and Metal matters section of the forum you will find a lot of info on how to use ascorbic acid. Look for posts by Mbar (Marie), she is the forum's resident stain expert!

[CarlD]

Even Chem_Geek loses his head from time to time!

Waterbear is ABSOLUTELY correct: Phosphates can be/should be ignored UNLESS all corrective measures for algae-killing fail. 99 out of 100 pool store guys will sell you a phosphate-remover (expensive) that you don't need, but Evan won't.

I'm a super-minimalist: I don't like adding anything that's not needed. Only Polyquat 60%.