New pool completed -- muratic acid in the skimmer and other issues / questions

[jasontx]

Hi-

First off I really appreciate all the information here and people's willingness to help. I've learned a lot -- mostly focusing on construction and stuff other than chemistry because it wasn't time yet. After a long build, the pool is done (well almost).

A picture of the completed project (I had just brushed so it is a little cloudy):



13k Gallon 17'x33' 3'-5'-4' 7' round spa
Light gray plaster with blue and black quartz
Jandy Equipment: 2.5 HP 2speed Stealth pump, 1 HP Waterfall pump, 580 Cartridge filter, 400k heater, Salt system, PDA

And now my questions and issues.

1. I watched the pool company's startup guy pour half a gallon of muratic acid into each of the skimmers. The pool wasn't running for a few minutes after that. I know all of you would have tackled him before the first drop hit, but I mentioned above I haven't paid as much attention to the chemistry yet -- and plus he does this for a living (I know). They have yet to come out and look at it, say that when stuff is clogged in the skimmer line this is standard practice, and aren't sure that caused my problem.

The problem is the plaster under the skimmer looks mostly gone and the quartz remained:









What are my options to fix this? Are there any good ones or are the solutions worse than the problem? While the pool company hasn't seen it in person yet, they aren't sure it was the acid. I don't think they were there before startup, but the water was a little cloudy and even later at first I thought it was a reflection of the dark skimmer "hole".

Now on to my more mundane questions:

2. While I got a Taylor 2006 test kit, I also went to test the water at Leslie's (who was appalled at the story above and didn't even want to sell me chemicals until I got it resolved with the builder). They also said no chlorine while the plaster cures -- at all. Is that right? I don't know that I've seen it mentioned specifically but I got the impression everyone else was doing it immediately. I know the startup guy put some in, but I wouldn't go by his actions. So should I put some bleach in? (Startup guy also put some CYA in, although I think it is a little low.) I've added muratic acid (not to the skimmer) 3 times and ph was still 8 before the last add. TA was 50-60 this morning so I added the last of the 12 lb box of sodium bicarbonate -- I need to check it again.

3. Pump noise. I'm sure you all think the 2.5 HP pump is way too big. For some reason in Texas that is the way everyone does it. At least I got it switched to a two speed (although the 2 speed relay isn't installed yet). Anyway, the pump seems really loud to me. Really loud. It is behind a 6 ft fence but it is loud everywhere in the backyard. I don't know how to quantify the noise level. You can maybe just hear it a bit in the house, which is 30 feet away. I plan to run it at the hopefully quieter low speed most of the time but is this normal?

4. The three waterfall things (they call them scuppers) are nice but kind of make too much noise for a quiet evening in the backyard. They are on a dedicated pump and each have a valve to level out the flow. Is it bad for the pump to lower all 3 values to make less water flow?

I'm sorry this is so long -- I thought about posting multiple threads but decided to keep it together. Thanks for hanging in there...

Jason

[Gracy101]

Jason - beautiful pool, congratulations on your completion. As for your questions/concerns:

1) I don't know about SOP for clogged skimmer lines, but I can tell you that by pouring the acid into the skimmer basket, w/out the pump on, it looks like the acid probably gently floated out of the opening and remained in/around the opening. From personal experience, I'm pretty sure your "stain" is from said acid eating away at your plaster and exposing the aggregate underneath. This is the same principal as used in the initial acid wash to expose your aggregate finish. I have a similar "stain" around the bottom of my steps because they did not rinse some pooled acid off quickly enough when the plaster guys were doing the job. While in a different area of the pool, my problem looks the same as yours.

The fix? My pool builder said either drain and acid wash the whole pool to even it out or live with it. I'm currently 9 months into my first year warranty and will probably live with the color variation. This is my experience but maybe someone will have another suggestion.

2) About stabilizing your pool water - I'm not knowledgable enough to speak to how you want to go about doing it, I do know that my builder wouldn't let me do anything initially claiming I could void my warranty. At startup, my builder sent a guy out once a day Monday thru Thursday and it took them 3 WEEKS to get my pool started. Having said that - after having learned everything I know from this forum about pool chemistry/maintenance I would abolutely test/bring my pool into balance on my own. I don't even want to know how much quicker I could have done it.

Can't really speak to #s 3 and 4, sorry, hopefully someone else will chime in. What I can tell you for sure, is this forum is the best. I have been maintaining my pool with the BBB method and except for when I have gotten careless (read lazy ) my water has been sparkling clear. Whatever problems I have had, have been cleared up with minimal expense to me thanks to the great advice on this pool forum.

Good luck.

Gracy

[jasontx]

Thanks Gracy.

I talked to the builder today. No word yet on the skimmer problem, but they said I should definitely be chlorinating. I poured a little shy of the appropriate amount of bleach in and got a disposable floater to maintain it until the salt system comes online -- I need the CYA anyway. It seems a lot clearer since I did that. I plan on doing BBB for times when the salt isn't enough and other corrections.

They issued a work order to look at the pump and its noise level. We'll see about that.

The whole construction process has been stressful but I am excited about having a pool I can get in!

Jason

[MarkC]

My 2 speed 2HP pump is very loud on high as well. On low it's just a quiet hum.

[divnkd101]

Jason,

Have you made final payment on pool? If yes, then forget my question. If no, hold the final payment until you are completely satisfied with the outcome. If it does get dirty then you at least know you have things well documented. Good luck with your struggles. BTW, the pool looks great!!!!!!

[jasontx]

Ok I think I have some answers to the questions for anyone else interested...they came out today after some additional pressure (lots) from me. All major builders here insist on final payment before plaster -- if I had it to over again I might have negotiated that more -- but is a major builder that motivated by 5-10%?

1) Exposed quartz under skimmers

It seems I was right and it was caused by the acid. They recommended lowering the ph to 7.0 for two weeks to expose the crystals more in other parts of the pool and even it out. Reading in the gardenweb forum I had almost decided on this too so I think it is a good solution -- apparently this is normal startup procedure for many people with quartz plaster (the guy they sent seemed surprised this wasn't what I was told initially for starup). I don't want to try patching or any other dramatic fix -- and I paid for the quartz I should see them. I just lowered it this afternoon so we will see what happens -- I'm going to do it for one week and reevaluate. He said if it doesn't work they can do a more drastic acid procedure.

2) No chlorine in a new pool advice from LPS

This was apparently flat out wrong. The builder return my call (on a Saturday!) to say I should maintain chlorine to avoid algae which could stain the uncured plaster. That is what I thought from reading here. Goes to show don't let any one source lead you from what you think is right.

3) Loud pump

They replaced the motor in the pump today and it is an amazing difference. It is at least as quiet now on high speed as it was on low speed before. I don't think you can even hear low speed outside the equipment fence. I'm a little irritated that the startup guy didn't respond to my "i'm surprised the pump is so loud" question and wonder how many people live with it not knowing.

4) Is it okay to reduce all water paths going to a pump to reduce the noise from a water feature

They said yes but I haven't really played with it much. I'm still a little wary of this.


It is amazing how different I feel after a one hour visit from the tech. I felt abandoned before but now feel the problems are resolved / resolvable. If the low ph thing doesn't work I will have to think about their alternative chemical solution (and probably ask about it here first). No one else is putting chemicals in my pool unless I understand it.

Thanks for the responses and the compliments on the pool. I don't know it is the one I would have picked from a gallery of pools but I do like it. Other areas have all kinds of interesting stone that seem regional. I can't wait to get in (other than the time I dropped the pole while brushing and the water was 55 degrees -- ouch).

The tech today was impressed by my Taylor k2006 we used to test the ph (instead of the dinky one they provided). I feel like I have such a leg up from researching here. I wouldn't have known to insist on a 2 speed pump and lots of other things.

I'm not always this long winded -- I promise.

Jason

[Watermom]

Don't worry about being long winded. This forum is all about people learning from the experiences of others. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure hearing about your experience will be beneficial to others who are getting ready to build their own pools. Good luck. I hope things work out with your pool to your satisfaction.