How Quats and Polyquat Algaecides work.

[haze_1956]

Quats and Polyquat Algaecides

Quats:- most often found in active concentrations of 5-10%. Such "quaternary ammonium salts" are surfactants (like detergents) and if added in excess, will cause foaming on the pool surface. Surfactants lower the surface tension of the water and "wet" algae cell walls. This "wetting" splits open the cell wall and kills the algae. Quats are most often used as a preventative, requiring lower concentrations and amounts than Polyquat to achieve the same level of prevention.

Polyquat:- sold in concentrations of 30 to 60%. and are more costly than Quats. Polyquat works well at destroying visible algae, being effective not only on green algae, but also with the chlorine resistant mustard and black algae, especially if pool has been brushed before application, Since it is Non-foaming, it is preferable for use where fountains, water falls, or other water features are a part of the swimming pool circulation system. Polyquat is also a clarifier and helps flocculate and remove organic matter.


(This information was gathered from several sources and combined to a more concise form. and posted for general information)

[CarlD]

Haze:

Experience of folks around here has been that the "quats" are more trouble than they are worth. Most of us won't use them.

PolyQuat is not really that much more expensive (if you shop for it)--I usually get it for $15 a quart or less and buy enough for a season or two.

Where we deviate from pool orthodoxy is that we do NOT recommend either for an algae bloom. By then it's too late. We recommend simply hammering the bloom with heavy dosing with chlorine (usually bleach) to get FC up to the shock level appropriate for the CYA/Stabilizer level in the pool and keeping the pool there until the water is clear for 48 hours (and shows no heavy FC drop off and CC never topping .5).

We do recommend using PolyQuat as a preventative as it will inhibit algae, act as a flocculant and has few if any side effects.

[haze_1956]

I had this same information on the old forum and no one ever commented on it.

I just reposted the information on this forum as I thought others might be wondering as I did, how these algaecides actually functioned.

Has anyone done testing to see if polyquat is ineffective against an algae bloom?

Someone on another thread stated it had been effective for them , which is what reminded me about reposting this information.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=486

I have no wish to misinform anyone. Please delete this thread if you feel it does.

[PoolDoc]

I just reposted the information on this forum as I thought others might be wondering as I did, how these algaecides actually functioned.

Has anyone done testing to see if polyquat is ineffective against an algae bloom?
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I have no wish to misinform anyone. Please delete this thread if you feel it does.

Some people do wonder about such things; I do, for one.

But, the PoolForum is not primarily about satisfying the curiousity of techno -geeks like you, or me. It's about helping ordinary, non-geeky pool owners ENJOY their pools.

That's why you won't see me recommending that someone 'test polyquats' against a bloom: chlorine is easier, cheaper, and more broadly effective. Now, if YOU decide to test it, I'd definitely like hear about your results. And, you can be sure that I'll start construction on a full blown pool lab, the first year I sell 100,000 kits. (Like that'll ever happen )

I'm endlessly curious about almost everything -- my interests range from the way meaning is transmitted via language, to the effect Robert E. Lee's command of Southern forces had on the War Between the States (as my Grandmother would call it), to why the barred owls in the Chickamauga Battlefield call in the spring (I recently found the answer to that one!), to possible practical solutions to the security and content problems that affect families, schools and churches using the Internet. But, none of those things belong here, and I try to keep them off.

I sometimes do write painfully long and detailed posts here, but usually what I'm trying to do is answer some question about technology that's being widely promoted in spite of being nearly useless for most pool owners. (eg. ozone!) The only way I know to do so is to explain, at length, and in detail, why ozone, or whatever, is usually useless.

It would be nice, in some ways, if the PoolForum could simply present the best way to do things, without constantly having to net all the 'red herrings' being constantly thrown into the pool by every sleazebag salesman. But, in the real world, fighting bad information is the necessary prelude to providing good information.

Fortunately, quats -- linear or poly -- aren't real money makers any more, so nobody's fighting too hard for their use. The linear quats are just diluted more and more, and sold in gallon jugs at a discount. So, it doesn't take much to convince people to 'just say no' to quats.

Bottom line: I don't mind your post, but it's not really that helpful to most readers. So, I'll move this thread to the "China Shop", where it can reside harmlessly!

Ben

[KurtV]

Ben, I think you may underestimate the appetite many of us "ordinary, non-geeky pool owners" have for this esoteric stuff. I think many of us want to understand the chemistry (and biology) on a little deeper level than "just keep adding bleach"; as sound and effective as that advice may be.

Keep the geeks (and their posts).

[haze_1956]

Ben

I don't have a problem with thread being moved to the China Shop, if you feel the information is not of value. However, do you feel the information I posted was inaccurate?

Because if the way polyquat functions, by rupturing the cell walls, is correct, it should be very effective against an existing bloom. A dose of poly to weaken the algae followed by high chlorine dose, would certainly shorten the time to eliminate it.

Just seems logical to me.