Electrical wiring concern with my PB

[skamp]

I agree with Skamp 100 to 150 extra for the work would be more inline than the 300 that the electrcian wanted. I did not mean that Skamp should just do it, I realize that permits are needed and that codes need to be followed. Since Skamp just upgraded his service I think he should know the codes and that permits would be needed, since going from a 125 amp service to a 200 amp service would mean an increase in the wire size coming from the metercan and possibly a change in the metercan plus bigger wire from the metrercan to where the utility company hooks up. The town that I live in Texas allows the Homeowner to perform his own work if he can articulate to the inspector what he is going to do and show that he knows the code and the utility company will not hook you back up until the inspector okays the work. Being an electrician by trade at one time, I don't see what the big deal is about this job.

Yea where I live there are no permits or inspections but I spent a ton of time makeing sure I knew what I was doing before I did it. Electric service is no joke. The reason why I did the 200 AMP upgrade myself is contractors were quoting me $2000+. I did it for $450.00 which included some day laborers to dig the trench. This included running 90 feet of 4/0 4/0 2/0 URD through 2" schedule 80 conduit buried 18+ inches deep from the transformer to the meter can, a 200 AMP main breaker, and running the 4/0 4/0 2/0 URD from the meter can to the main panel.

Anyway I spoke with my PB and there was a miscommunication. My quote included a sub panel hookup so it looks like I got all worked up for nothing. I appreciate all the feedback and comments!

Steve

[Poolidiot]

"As far as overloading the service, a sub panel or multiple sub panels are not a problem"

Standard wise, this statement is wrong.

[skamp]

"As far as overloading the service, a sub panel or multiple sub panels are not a problem"

Standard wise, this statement is wrong.

Not sure what you mean. You can have multiple sub panels and still not overload the main panel. The number of breakers and/or feeders to other sub panels is irrelevant. Only the total load matters. The problem is not the number of breakers or sub panels.

Almost everyone's main panel is "over subscribed" in that the total sum of all the breakers is more and in most cases much more then the main breaker. There is a limit but it is much higher then the main breaker's rating. In practice you would do a load calculation to determine your maximum probable load to size your main service. I did not run the calulation but my service even with the sub panel would never come close to 200 AMP's.

Below is something I found that deals with a question on the NEC test that applies here.

Q8. Is there a code limitation as to the total ampere rating of all circuit breakers in a panel? Example: Could the total ampere rating of all circuit breakers in a 100A panel exceed 100A?

A8. This is not a Code issue. The sum of the ampere rating of the circuit breakers in a panelboard is irrelevant. As a matter of fact, it is very common for the total ampere rating of the branch breakers in a panelboard to far exceed the rating of the panelboard.

Steve

[Poolidiot]

"I did not run the calulation but my service even with the sub panel would never come close to 200 AMP's."

Well all I can say is, This is your house, You said there is no inspections in your area, you say your panel would never reach 200 amps even with adding tools and welders. So I say good luck with your project and I hope you never have any problems.

[skamp]

"I did not run the calulation but my service even with the sub panel would never come close to 200 AMP's."

Well all I can say is, This is your house, You said there is no inspections in your area, you say your panel would never reach 200 amps even with adding tools and welders. So I say good luck with your project and I hope you never have any problems.

As of right now I don't have tools or a welder hooked up. I wanted to have space to add it later. If I was to do this I would make sure that the pool equipment was off to prevent a possible overload. Even if it did not still don't think I would be close to 200 AMP's. If I did exceed the 200 AMP's the main breaker would trip. That is what it's job is, to prevent an overload.

To be honest I wish they had inspections in my area to make sure my work is solid. I have spoken to a number of electricians before doing my 200 AMP upgrade to make 100% I was following code.

Steve

[Poolidiot]

"If I did exceed the 200 AMP's the main breaker would trip. That is what it's job is, to prevent an overload. "


I agree that is the breakers "job", BUT I have seen breakers NOT do the job, I have seen an cord break and land in water and the breaker not trip. So although that is a breakers job it does not always do its job right. I just work on the side of safety.

[skamp]

"If I did exceed the 200 AMP's the main breaker would trip. That is what it's job is, to prevent an overload. "


I agree that is the breakers "job", BUT I have seen breakers NOT do the job, I have seen an cord break and land in water and the breaker not trip. So although that is a breakers job it does not always do its job right. I just work on the side of safety.

I agree. I also error on the side of safety. That is why I put in 200 AMP service. I only had 125 before. I upgraded to give me plenty of overhead for the pool equiptment and other stuff. I am sure my 125 AMP service would have provided enough power even with the pool upgrade but I did not want run near capacity.

Steve

[huskyrider]

Of this I can assure you.
In my lifetime I've been involved in the construction of an easy 3000 plus swimming pools between being another mans hand, a mechanical subcontractor, and a general contractor.
I've yet to see one power center (breaker box) where the sum of the individual breakers added up to an equal or less ampacity. The total of these breakers always exceeds the the main disconnect breaker.
I agree with skamp. The thing to do is make a mental determination of what your big loads are and stay under that number while running your circuits.
In the average home the items I mentioned are the high load circuits.

Poolidiot is also absolutely correct in the fact that it can be overloaded.

I have 200 amps to my pool/pavilion area with its own meter can and power service.
I've tripped the main breaker twice since construction. It was the same thing both times. We had the band equipment set up and were jamming, had all 11 pumps running, and kicked on the heat pumps to help the gas fired heaters heat the spa quickly. The power tripped after 5 minutes give or take, the backyard went completely black and silent, the only light was from inside the house, from the fire in the fireplace out in the pavilion, and from the firepit flames by the beach.
Now I run our band equipment off of a 50amp garage circuit. I just fed straight through it another 8/3 to a power center behind the pavilion. Now I can convert garage energy into backyard energy and not risk tripping the main.
Although 200 amps is a bunch it can be as easily tripped by to much of a load as a 15 in a bathroom with teenage girls and hairdryers, LOL.

See ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

Of this I can assure you.
In my lifetime I've been involved in the construction of an easy 3000 plus swimming pools between being another mans hand, a mechanical subcontractor, and a general contractor.
I've yet to see one power center (breaker box) where the sum of the individual breakers added up to an equal or less ampacity. The total of these breakers always exceeds the the main disconnect breaker.
I agree with skamp. The thing to do is make a mental determination of what your big loads are and stay under that number while running your circuits.
In the average home the items I mentioned are the high load circuits.

Poolidiot is also absolutely correct in the fact that it can be overloaded.

I have 200 amps to my pool/pavilion area with its own meter can and power service.
I've tripped the main breaker twice since construction. It was the same thing both times. We had the band equipment set up and were jamming, had all 11 pumps running, and kicked on the heat pumps to help the gas fired heaters heat the spa quickly. The power tripped after 5 minutes give or take, the backyard went completely black and silent, the only light was from inside the house, from the fire in the fireplace out in the pavilion, and from the firepit flames by the beach.
Now I run our band equipment off of a 50amp garage circuit. I just fed straight through it another 8/3 to a power center behind the pavilion. Now I can convert garage energy into backyard energy and not risk tripping the main.
Although 200 amps is a bunch it can be as easily tripped by to much of a load as a 15 in a bathroom with teenage girls and hairdryers, LOL.

See ya,
Kelly

Too funny. I have 1 girl now and one on the way so I will make sure to keep track of the hairdyers in the future so I don't trip the main!

Steve