Electrical wiring concern with my PB

[skamp]

Well I just looked at my contract again and it states in the utilities section that it includes a sub panel. Looks like they are on the hook for doing this. I guess the big question is what AMP service does that mean? If they were planning on running a 60 AMP (which I would deem to be the minimum) they would need to run #4 so I am hoping I can convince them to run #2 with a 100 AMP breaker instead for the cost difference. I will let you know what happens.

Steve

[pinkivory_99]

I agree with Skamp 100 to 150 extra for the work would be more inline than the 300 that the electrcian wanted. I did not mean that Skamp should just do it, I realize that permits are needed and that codes need to be followed. Since Skamp just upgraded his service I think he should know the codes and that permits would be needed, since going from a 125 amp service to a 200 amp service would mean an increase in the wire size coming from the metercan and possibly a change in the metercan plus bigger wire from the metrercan to where the utility company hooks up. The town that I live in Texas allows the Homeowner to perform his own work if he can articulate to the inspector what he is going to do and show that he knows the code and the utility company will not hook you back up until the inspector okays the work. Being an electrician by trade at one time, I don't see what the big deal is about this job.

[skamp]

I agree with Skamp 100 to 150 extra for the work would be more inline than the 300 that the electrcian wanted. I did not mean that Skamp should just do it, I realize that permits are needed and that codes need to be followed. Since Skamp just upgraded his service I think he should know the codes and that permits would be needed, since going from a 125 amp service to a 200 amp service would mean an increase in the wire size coming from the metercan and possibly a change in the metercan plus bigger wire from the metrercan to where the utility company hooks up. The town that I live in Texas allows the Homeowner to perform his own work if he can articulate to the inspector what he is going to do and show that he knows the code and the utility company will not hook you back up until the inspector okays the work. Being an electrician by trade at one time, I don't see what the big deal is about this job.

Yea where I live there are no permits or inspections but I spent a ton of time makeing sure I knew what I was doing before I did it. Electric service is no joke. The reason why I did the 200 AMP upgrade myself is contractors were quoting me $2000+. I did it for $450.00 which included some day laborers to dig the trench. This included running 90 feet of 4/0 4/0 2/0 URD through 2" schedule 80 conduit buried 18+ inches deep from the transformer to the meter can, a 200 AMP main breaker, and running the 4/0 4/0 2/0 URD from the meter can to the main panel.

Anyway I spoke with my PB and there was a miscommunication. My quote included a sub panel hookup so it looks like I got all worked up for nothing. I appreciate all the feedback and comments!

Steve

[Poolidiot]

"As far as overloading the service, a sub panel or multiple sub panels are not a problem"

Standard wise, this statement is wrong.

[skamp]

"As far as overloading the service, a sub panel or multiple sub panels are not a problem"

Standard wise, this statement is wrong.

Not sure what you mean. You can have multiple sub panels and still not overload the main panel. The number of breakers and/or feeders to other sub panels is irrelevant. Only the total load matters. The problem is not the number of breakers or sub panels.

Almost everyone's main panel is "over subscribed" in that the total sum of all the breakers is more and in most cases much more then the main breaker. There is a limit but it is much higher then the main breaker's rating. In practice you would do a load calculation to determine your maximum probable load to size your main service. I did not run the calulation but my service even with the sub panel would never come close to 200 AMP's.

Below is something I found that deals with a question on the NEC test that applies here.

Q8. Is there a code limitation as to the total ampere rating of all circuit breakers in a panel? Example: Could the total ampere rating of all circuit breakers in a 100A panel exceed 100A?

A8. This is not a Code issue. The sum of the ampere rating of the circuit breakers in a panelboard is irrelevant. As a matter of fact, it is very common for the total ampere rating of the branch breakers in a panelboard to far exceed the rating of the panelboard.

Steve

[Poolidiot]

"I did not run the calulation but my service even with the sub panel would never come close to 200 AMP's."

Well all I can say is, This is your house, You said there is no inspections in your area, you say your panel would never reach 200 amps even with adding tools and welders. So I say good luck with your project and I hope you never have any problems.

[skamp]

"I did not run the calulation but my service even with the sub panel would never come close to 200 AMP's."

Well all I can say is, This is your house, You said there is no inspections in your area, you say your panel would never reach 200 amps even with adding tools and welders. So I say good luck with your project and I hope you never have any problems.

As of right now I don't have tools or a welder hooked up. I wanted to have space to add it later. If I was to do this I would make sure that the pool equipment was off to prevent a possible overload. Even if it did not still don't think I would be close to 200 AMP's. If I did exceed the 200 AMP's the main breaker would trip. That is what it's job is, to prevent an overload.

To be honest I wish they had inspections in my area to make sure my work is solid. I have spoken to a number of electricians before doing my 200 AMP upgrade to make 100% I was following code.

Steve

[huskyrider]

I guess the big question is what AMP service does that mean? If they were planning on running a 60 AMP (which I would deem to be the minimum)

Steve

While I was reaffirming poolidiots statement last night I meant to address this but got off rambling about how I've lost my power. I lost track of the topic and posted the reply.

Here's your equipment from another thread

MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT
Equipment Pad: Gunite
Filter: Sta Rite Modular System 3, Cartridge Filter 400 Sq. Ft.
Pool/Spa Pump: Sta Rite 2 HP
Waterfall Pump: Sta Rite 2 HP
Paramount Pump: Sta Rite 1 HP
Blower: Polaris QT 1/5 HP
Automatic Cleaner: PCC-2000 Cleaning & Circulation System w/MDX Main Drain and Debris Canister
Controller: Easy Touch 8 Function Wireless Control System
Sanitizer: Salt System w/ Beginnings and Renewals
Ozonator: Paramount Clear 03 Ozone System
Lights: Pool: One (1) Pentair Amerlite 500 Watt
Spa: One (1) Pentair Aqualite 100 Watt
Heater: Sta Rite Max-E-Therm 400,000 BTU Nat

I came up with 47 amps.

You'll get a 50 amp (8/2 w/grd) for your controllers power center from your electrician.

See ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

While I was reaffirming poolidiots statement last night I meant to address this but got off rambling about how I've lost my power. I lost track of the topic and posted the reply.

Here's your equipment from another thread


I came up with 47 amps.

You'll get a 50 amp (8/2 w/grd) for your controllers power center from your electrician.

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly,
They said they are going to do a 100 AMP panel for me as a sub panel was already included in my bid. In addtion to the pool equiptment I have the following:

1. 15 AMP circuit for outdoor kitchen. It will be running a small light and fridge so this will only use a few amps.
2. 15-20 AMP circuit for covered patio. This will have 6 can lights, 2 ceiling fans and two flood lights. This should be about 1200 watts max.
3. 15 AMP circuit for lanscape lighting. This will be maybe 10 AMP's.

So with the pool equiptment and other power needs I am somewhere around 60-70 AMP's max. The cost to change from a 70 AMP to 100 AMP feed is around $10.00-$20.00 so I figured why not. I have extra capacity if I ever need it. Thanks!

Steve