Leak warranty coverage

[kwazy]

Does anyone have any experience with having leak repairs done under warranty? My 3 yr old pool is losing water, and the builder charged me $105 to tell me that the leak is in the spillway between my spa and pool, and because of this it is not covered under warranty. Its rapidly becoming yet another case that proves that warranty's are pretty much worthless.

I know much of this is subjective to the contract - the exact wording on the back of mine is as follows:

"Contractor further guarantees that the structure will remain structurally sound for a lifetime. The term, "Lifetime of the Pool," shall be construed to mean the period that the pool is owned by the original purchaser.

The term "Structurally sound" means that the swimming pool is capable of containing and holding water and in the event of a failure to do so, Contractor will within said period repair the same so that it does hold water."

then, under "limited guarantees and warranties", it states:

"Lifetime Guarantee will not extend to cover items external to pool, such as tile which may be damaged by frost or foreign substances, electrical hookup, light bulbs, skimmer wires, skimmer baskets, or whips, covers, or blankets"

The spillway between my 18" raised spa and pool is built up with stone, and the builder is trying to claim that the leak is in the morter of this stone and therefore not part of the "structure of the shell", and that this is common among most (implying all) pool company warranties.

He's telling me that the repair will cost me $700 or more, and that I get to foot the entire bill. I can't believe that I spent upwards of $50K just 3 years ago and I'm already seeing a repair bill of this size. I'd love to hear from anyone who's gone through similiar problems and how they were resolved. I'm sure it will cost me more than $700 in lawyers if I really want to push the issue, but there's that part of me that wants to argue "for the principle".

Thanks,
Jeff

[waste]

Jeff, it sounds to me like the contractor 'covered his a**', as he's saying the leak is 'external to the pool'. However, $700 sounds quite a bit expensive for so easy a repair. Were you there when they 'found' the leak?, if so are you sure that's where it is? (I have a little trouble believeing that a 'spiilway' leak is causing a noticable loss of pool water) Even if it is, the repair should be fairly inexpensive, you can do it yourself.

I haven't seen the 'proposed leak' myself, but some hydrolic cement should fix the problem, if that's the only problem. There are other 'pool dudes' besides myself that frequent this site, between us, we should be able to save you most of that $700.

I'll let this sit a while and see if they will 'chime-in' before offering you the way to rectify this situation.

How much water do you loose each day? Can you post a pic of the area in question?

[huskyrider]

My warranty reads virtually word for word the way your builders does.
It means that the leak is not covered. However, it doesn't mean that I'll hose the buyer on the repair.
On pools over a year old I ask the homeowner to pay the leak detection company and I'll come determine the labor intensiveness of the repair.
On one like yours I'd just send a mason and a helper on a weekend and have the homeowner pay them their overtime wages in cash with a 4 hour minimum.
This excites my hands because they know that this should be no more than an hour repair.

waste is correct, this is a repair that could most likely be handled by a homeowner very affordably. On a repair like this I'll usually lift the leaking rock if it's loose, chip the old thinset off, cement it back in, and grout.
If the rock isn't loose I'll take and chip out the grout and then regrout.

I'm sorry if you feel that your pool should be covered under warranty because it shouldn't. This is not the structure, it's one of the items external to the structure.
If your car needed brakes after three years does that mean it should be covered under warranty too? No, it's an item thats excluded.

I'm equally sorry that your builder trying to hose you on the repair, the most it should cost him is 50 to 200 to have the repair addressed.

See ya,
Kelly

[kwazy]

Thanks for the replies guys. In response to some of your questions, the water loss is the better part of an inch in 24 hours with the pump running. When the pump is off for 24 hours little (probably no) water is lost. Also, when the pump is off, the water drains slowly out of the spa into the pool to a point just below the tile line. I told the builder this on the phone, and he charged me $105 to come out and confirm that this is where my leak is. I'll try to get home before its too dark to take a pic tonight.

Kelly - I really appreciate you input on the contract - I was hoping to get your input on that part of this, and its good to hear your contract is worded the same. However, the use of the word "external" is what I find questionable in this context. The wording is that "it will hold water" (which mine is not), and then the exceptions are things that are "external". It seems obvious to me that something that is constantly submerged in water when the pool is running shouldn't be considered "external". Isn't the plaster covered by this warranty? Why is it not "external" - its not part of the shell... If something this integral to the pool is considered external, it leads me to wonder what (if anything) *would* be covered by this warranty. Of course, I *am* biased on the matter, hence my seeking outside input.

As an update, the PB's manager over repairs called me yesterday and said that he thinks they can rebuild the stone spillway (and hence fix the leak) for about $300 instead of the "rough estimate" of $700-$800 I was originally given. Thats enough to still irk me on a 3 year old pool, but obviously much better than the original quote. Of course, the workmanship of this repair is only guaranteed for 1 year, so I might be right back here in a couple of years...

[No Need]

For $300 I would have them just fix it and be done with it. One less thing to worry about. Summer is coming!

My Brother just a bought a 4 year old house with a pool, it's going to cost him $2500 to get it all be the way it should be.

[kwazy]

For $300 I would have them just fix it and be done with it.

Already have that ball rolling. At this point, the question is a) how long before I have to do it again, and b) what exactly *does* a warranty cover.

In any case, thanks for the input.

[huskyrider]

Why is it not "external" - its not part of the shell... .

You asked, and answered your question in the same sentence.

Your platform, aka structure, gunite shell, etc.. is a monolithic concrete foundation for its fascia (coping), it's finish (waterline tile and plaster), and its peripherals such as pool lamps, main drains etc.. and is warranted to be structurally sound and hold water. Anything fastened to, or encased in the concrete is considered external.
Retaining water is the job description of a number of pool items besides the platform.

I'm glad to hear your getting a better deal than their original estimation, I thought it was a hosing for sure.

See ya,
Kelly

[kwazy]

You asked, and answered your question in the same sentence.

Your platform, aka structure, gunite shell, etc.. is a monolithic concrete foundation for its fascia (coping), it's finish (waterline tile and plaster), and its peripherals such as pool lamps, main drains etc.. and is warranted to be structurally sound and hold water. Anything fastened to, or encased in the concrete is considered external.
Retaining water is the job description of a number of pool items besides the platform.

I'm glad to hear your getting a better deal than their original estimation, I thought it was a hosing for sure.

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly,

Thanks again for your reply. I guess what is really confusing about all this is that the gunite shell is not capable of holding water by itself, true? My understanding is that if during my pool construction I filled the shell with water before the plaster and tile were applied, that shell would not hold the water. The plaster and tile are what waterproofs the structure. If this is the case, then what is the purpose of warranting the "shell/structure" to hold water if said warranty doesn't include the plaster and tile?

Regards,
Jeff

[huskyrider]

The warranty is for the shell not to crack. When it cracks so does the plaster troweled over it. When the shell cracks that's when it warrantied by the guniter.

See ya,
Kelly