Indoor SWCG Pool, cloudy/ green

[waste]

Hey guys, thanks for answering!

I went out this AM to see the pool again, but couldn't get in (I had talked to both husband and wife and they assured me that the door would be left open if no one was going to be home - it wasn't) So I can't give the chem #s from today - and I don't know if there's still a problem.

It's been asked by 2/3 of the respoders 'why I added cya to the pool?' I was remembering this

I personnally am considering recommending that a small amount of CYA (around 10-20 ppm) be used in indoor pools to reduce the chlorine concentration which not only should make swimsuits last longer and the air smell less like chlorine, but should also reduce the disinfection by-products (DBPs) that are produced.

from http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=6364 #6 by Richard (as I said, I was worried about too much cl being produced, as has been my experience with indoor SWCG pools) (& though I couldn't find the thread, I thought it might prevent some oxidation of the metal rails, etc. in the pool - esp the light screws, which was a problem all last year in our SWCG pools) I figured it wouldn't hurt to have ~20 ppm in the pool, and could prevent some problems that might arise (I know, with 3# the cya should be ~30ppm- I told my partener too add 1/2 of the 4# container, but he figured 'if some is good, more is better' )

If I get out there again, I'll get the full set of #s (I couldn't last time because my partener had let my test kit FREEZE !!!- I'm not sure if the reagents are still good, but I've still got my 2005k)

Tom, did you ever figure out what was going on with your Polaris 180?

Evan, I've tried to look into the deck jets, but don't have access to the office, I talked to someone at our distributer - but he was clueless - sorry!

Again, THANKS!!! for the responses!! - Ted

[waterbear]

Evan, I've tried to look into the deck jets, but don't have access to the office, I talked to someone at our distributer - but he was clueless - sorry!

Thanks for trying! I appreciate that. I finally got the correct jet nozzles. One of our distributors recently got a new employee who was formerly a Zodiac rep (They own Polaris) and she knew EXACTLY what I wanted and even knew the correct part number! I got them three weeks after ordering (they needed to be special ordered)! As soon as the pool is warm enough to get into I am going to install them.

[aquarium]

Tom, did you ever figure out what was going on with your Polaris 180?

It seems to have resolved itself.

I think it just might be reacting to our sudden temperature changes.

[chem geek]

When CYA is added to a pool, a higher FC level is needed to prevent algae (but you already knew that). Though you were worried about too high a chlorine level, it would appear that in this pool there is too little chlorine generation to maintain a high enough FC, especially for the CYA level, though I don't know why. Perhaps there was even more CYA added than you think -- a full set of measurements would be helpful. If the FC was very low to begin with, then adding CYA would have made the disinfecting chlorine level too low so algae could develop.

Also, if you use CYA in the indoor pool I had also mentioned that the use of non-chlorine shock might be required since achieving breakpoint with chlorine alone is always difficult in an indoor pool (due to lack of sunlight) and that with CYA it's even harder. If you add chlorine and find that the FC eventually gets stable (doesn't get consumed) but that the CC level is high and doesn't go down, then the use of non-chlorine shock (KMPS) would probably be needed to shock and as ongoing maintenance, though in theory the SWG should be able to shock the pool even with CYA in it.

I'm still betting that the SWG stopped working or was set too low. Either that or the amount of CYA that was added was a lot more than you thought.

Richard

[waste]

Richard, again I thank you for your input!

When I was first called out there for the 'cloudy' water, others had been there and added the salt (however, they neglected to turn the SWCG 'on' ) I added 12.5% to compensate and turned the d*mned thing on. (Part of the problem is that I'm only getting 'called in' when something goes wrong). It went from 'cloudy' (~white~ precipitation) to clear after I shocked it, then back to the same 'cloudy'. My boss called me (I should charge him for the call ) and added more 12.5% after talking to me and 'upped' the output on the cell (was at 5% and he turned it up to 20% -after I told him how to do it )
The water went (over the course of 5 visits, 2 of them I was there to supervise) from cloudy to clear, back to cloudy and then to the 'green' (water not cloudy, but 2 days later- when I got there to 'clear', but with a green hue to the water)

I'm almost sorry I created this thread, as I'm the only one ( in my company, the owner included) who cares (or has taken the time, to try and figure out what's going on), however - I guess that's the price I have to pay for making enough $ to afford new furniture (that's why I gave my test kit to my partener - I had to stay home to receive tne new living room set, so I (foolishly) entrusted him w/ my kit).

I strongly suspected that algae had entered the pool, but was wondering if, with the solar cover on, the chlorine (5+ ppm) couldn't do it's job, without being able to 'outgas'

I don't know how 'outgassing' effects a pools' ability to 'clear-up', which is why I turned to you and Evan -- I'm meerly a questor here, trying to make sence of 'what's going on'

Richard, as always, thank you for the info you share!! -Ted

[chem geek]

I have an opaque pool cover, maintain chlorine levels, use CYA (around 20 ppm) and never get algae. Yes, it's an outdoor pool, but even when it's covered for days or a week at a time nothing goes wrong with it. Now that doesn't prove anything since it's just one data point, but your use of a pool cover may have caused the pool temperature to rise and that is something that the algae may have liked -- so if the pool was on the "edge" of developing algae, that could have pushed it over.

You said there was 5 ppm FC, but when you measured later when it was green there was no FC at all so I'm still betting that the FC didn't hold, though again I don't know why (if the SWG was working). This sounds like a classic algae bloom that must be fought with frequent additions of chlorine until the chlorine holds after the water clears, but usually with an SWG you can just run it more frequently (even continually) and the high chlorine in the cell will blast most of the algae. So something here still doesn't add up. Have you measured the CYA level yet?

I doubt that simply being an indoor pool with CYA is the culprit, but if it is then I'll have real egg on my face. I knew that achieving breakpoint (keeping CC low) is hard in an indoor pool and that CYA makes that harder, but did not expect algae to develop -- it just doesn't make much sense.

Richard

[Poolsean]

my two cents....
The fact that it cleared up with the addition of chlorine leans towards it being algae. If it were metals causing the green hue, shocking would have caused it to fall out of solution and stain the pool.
I'm with the rest. TEST FIRST and report the results back to us. Also, you may want to upgrade to a K2006, that allows you to test free and combined chlorine to very high levels. In most cases with indoor pools and Salt Chlorine generators, it's easy to overchlorinate as there are little usage, tend to be smaller volumes, and little to no UV to consume the chlorine (and you have a cover too in this case).

I'd bet that the well water is very high in organic loads or some other "stuff" that is creating a chlorine demand that the salt system cannot keep up with. Again going back to the suggestions of the rest, shock the pool to overcome the chlorine demand. Check your filter for debris/algae. Test and report back to us.

Sorry, nothing new to offer from what already has been offered.

[aquarium]

Well water might also contain high levels of crop fertilizers such as nitrates and phosphates that have run off and/or percolated into the water table.