I need a pool heater!

[CarlD]

I did not suggest a heat pump because I assumed you wanted to use a pool in far lower temps than I would consider (unless it was an indoor pool). I totally use solar, but were I to install an active heater it would be a heat pump, just a Sean suggests.

Heat pumps got a lot of bad press when they were used incorrectly as whole-house heating systems in too-harsh environments. While a heat pump works INCREDIBLY efficiently from the mid-40's and above, they fall off in efficiency rapidly below that (Sean can probably get the exact figures). But when freezing temps hit, heat pumps fail completely and fall back on electrical resistance heating, the most expensive and inefficient means. Houses and town houses that use them in those circumstances tend to be chilly.

So heat pumps were installed in lots of town house and houses in the Northern Virginia and Maryland area around DC, where they were the WRONG system for the region--it usually gets far too cold even there for heat pumps. When we bought in that area, back in the late 80's, we specifically looked for a community being built with furnace/AC units rather than heat pumps.

I don't know why heat pumps aren't the standard throughout Florida rather than A/C. When they get those cold snaps that always seem to catch them by surprise, the heat pump would be the PERFECT solution as it is essentially a reversable A/C unit.

Yet for most pool owners, a heat pump is a marvelous solution. There's less installation, just elec, not elec & gas. They pay for themselves quickly in reduced cost of operations, and they are in their IDEAL operating range at temps most people want to swim. From 60 to 80, a heat pump's going to be super-efficient at heating your water. Even from the mid 40's through the 50's it should work well. Below that, well, if it was me, I wouldn't be swimming anyway!

Still, if you are planning on using your pool when it's in the freezing and below range, a heat pump won't work and you'll need to go to gas heat. But still, I think for that an enclosure will be necessary. It's not like a 105 deg hot tub.

[MarkC]

I Have a heat pump and love it(I live in PA). With that said it's pretty useless at 50 degree air temps.

[CarlD]

I Have a heat pump and love it(I live in PA). With that said it's pretty useless at 50 degree air temps.

Took me 20 times the space to say the same thing!

[ChuckD]

(Even tho my pool's frozen over right now, I still check in. Come on Springtime!)

I think an important distinction needs to made as to what the source of the heat energy is for the heat pump. Clearly we're talking about using the outside air here. We bought our house with an air-source heat pump (Carrier) and an attractive pellet stove. We thought, 'how quaint, it'll be nice to look at on winter days'. Now we know it's essential to heating the house. As said, when the source of the heat energy drops toward, and below, freezing, efficiency goes out the window.

That said, heat pumps can be a very efficient way to heat if one uses sub-frostline ground temps as the source.
There's lots of info on the internets about 'geothermal' energy (50 to 55 degrees) to feed a heatpump and it's something I'm very seriously looking at.

So, more to the point, I wonder if the same idea doesn't exist for heating a pool as well?

Chuck

[CarlD]

(Even tho my pool's frozen over right now, I still check in. Come on Springtime!)

I think an important distinction needs to made as to what the source of the heat energy is for the heat pump. Clearly we're talking about using the outside air here. We bought our house with an air-source heat pump (Carrier) and an attractive pellet stove. We thought, 'how quaint, it'll be nice to look at on winter days'. Now we know it's essential to heating the house. As said, when the source of the heat energy drops toward, and below, freezing, efficiency goes out the window.

That said, heat pumps can be a very efficient way to heat if one uses sub-frostline ground temps as the source.
There's lots of info on the internets about 'geothermal' energy (50 to 55 degrees) to feed a heatpump and it's something I'm very seriously looking at.

So, more to the point, I wonder if the same idea doesn't exist for heating a pool as well?

Chuck

I know that there is a constant temp of, I believe, 58 deg F underground, like 3 to 5 feet, depending on location.

But I've NEVER heard of a heat pump that used THAT as the source of heat! Wow--that's a great idea, if it can be made to work--a sufficiently large heatpump would work no matter HOW cold it got.

[ChuckD]

CarlD, you of all people! I woulda thought you'd be all over this.
Start your journey here:
http://www.geoexchange.org

[CarlD]

CarlD, you of all people! I woulda thought you'd be all over this.
Start your journey here:
http://www.geoexchange.org

I hang my head in shame for my ignorance!

[fcfrey]

I know that there is a constant temp of, I believe, 58 deg F underground, like 3 to 5 feet, depending on location.

But I've NEVER heard of a heat pump that used THAT as the source of heat! Wow--that's a great idea, if it can be made to work--a sufficiently large heatpump would work no matter HOW cold it got.

I'm in Central PA and I installed a Geothermal Heat pump for my home back in 1992. BELIEVE THIS!! It paid for itself in 4 years compared to the baseboard electric I had been using. There are Geothermal heat pumps for pool applications. If you are even thinking of a heater in PA I would recommend you look at Geothermal. The size is still determined by surface area and the temperature differential at which you intend to use it.

One other thing I have to mention is whether you asked yourself this question. "Am I going to use the pool when the air temperature is low?"

My wife and I don't go near the pool unless the air temp is above 75 - 80degrees even if the water is the same or higher. Maybe I'm chicken but it's cold out there when your all wet!! Any heater is expensive if you don't swim when the air is cool.

[Poolsean]

MOST heat pumps quit below 60 degrees. Because of that there is an option of "heat and cool" in which it will reverse the flow of freon to defrost the ice that forms on the side of the heat pump to stop it from working. Some do this automatically and some require a manual switch. Aqua Cal has this built into the Heat N Cool models and will work down to 23 degrees (albeit at a lower efficiency).