New pool build -- pipes and pump sizes

[tphaggerty]

As mentioned above, I would just make that the 3 lines tie into a 2" header prior to the pump and that you get ball valves on all 3 lines. My builder wanted to do 1.5" all around, including on the pad, which I wasn't going to let happen. Your pad should be all 2" (header to pump, pump to filter, filter to return headers).

[msm859]

the pool will have 3 separate 1.5" lines and I've decided to live with that. I kind of feel liked I've pushed them out of their normal bubble enough (I know not a good reason) and I think the three separate lines should be sufficient. I definitely get the feeling no one else usually questions choices / requests changes, but that interest is what makes us all more particular.
Jason

Umm it is YOUR pool -- question everything if you want. I am having 3 separate 2" lines going back to the pad all going into a 2 1/2" header. The return line is 2 1/2". My pool builder refers to me as the "troublemaker" -- jokingly, but I have questioned about everything. I am really into the mechanics of it. I am going with the Pentair Intelliflo pumps 1 for the spa and 1 for the pool. Pressure thus becomes even more important.

[Big_D]

Jason,
I was also a troublemaker, so much that I and my builder parted ways. In the end I did an owner builder. I did make some mistakes, but I also have a great pool today. You are way ahead of the game coming here to read up on how to maintain that pool. Builders build, and very few ever maintain a pool. I would make sure they loop the returns also, this will allow for more consistent even return flow. Who is your builder? A&S, Riverbend, Hobert I talked to about 10 in the DFW area. PM if you need to ask any questions.

[jasontx]

Thanks again everyone. I will ask about upgrading the sizes of the 1.5" lines to be 2". Even if the pipes were fine for this pump -- I'd like to build it so it could handle the next generation pump as well if it isn't a big $$ upgrade (which it doesn't sound like it should be). He did mention the header would be larger but I don't know the details. The Jandy Stealth pump I selected has a 2.5" line but I don't know that it matters when you also have a filter and heater to go thru that are probably 2". Dig day got pushed back until next week as we are expecting rain all day tomorrow and all weekend. Bummer.

Big_D - I talked to 4 companies and went with Hobert. Riverbend was a close second place. So far Hobert has been great -- any stress I have had about pushing and changing things has been my own, they haven't been negative about it. A friend built a pool with them 4 years ago and had a generally positive experience (nothing is perfect). Thanks for the offer to answer further questions -- I may be taking you up on that. I think owner builder would have stressed me out too much.

[beary]

Jason,
I was also a troublemaker, so much that I and my builder parted ways. In the end I did an owner builder.

Troublemaker here too. I didn't part ways, but both the builder and I wished we did. Learn as much as possible so that you know what you want. I didn't get in-floor cleaners because I could find a builder in this area who understood them. later on I found out my subcontractor had installed serveral in Texas and he would have don't it had he known.

Remember, building a pool is not rocket-science. But it can be built wrong. If I had to do it over again, I would be a builder owner, but I'm not suggesting that you go that direction because it takes a lot of time. However, I would start talking to subcontractors because you can learn a lot about from them. Diggers, truck drivers, plasterers, anyone other than the Pool campany owner. I learned more from one of the truck drivers who hauled off the dirt from our dig than any of our builders.

And, have a drawing made before you start and give a copy to everyone foreman who works on your pool so that everytime you have to talk to someone, you can point to the drawing. Language seems to get in the way everytime something needs to be pointed out.

Beary

[Big_D]

Hobert did one of my neighbors at the same time I did mine. They did a good job and my neighbor was happy with the results. They have a pretty good reputation. I am surprised they are changing from Jandy, they just changed from Hayward last year. 3 Changes in 3 years? I know that the Intelliflo is more $ but you might get them to work with you since Pentair will give them a good discount on the first few equipment installs they sell. The builder I got my equipment from did exactly that, but it still cost me about $1,200.00 over the Jandy package but that was also because I went with the Intellitouch System and the full Intelliflo vs the 4x160. Sure was nice to be able to run my Intelliflo at any speed so I could use less power. Especially when the cost of electricity went through the roof last summer. You are going to pay for it, question is now or later. Go here and review the numbers. You need to know what you are paying for electricity per Kilowat hour.
http://www.pentairpool.com/pool_pump_calc/index.htm
Take Care,
D

[jasontx]

I think the Intelliflow sounds great and I think it is likely very energy efficient, but I don't quite trust their calculator. It seems to give some odd results to me -- but what do I know.

I'm not sure why Hobert went from Hayward to Jandy. I think a lot of customers like the PDA so I wonder if that was part of it. Hayward announced their version of a wireless / waterproof controller about a month ago (and Hayward was off my list until then). My salesman said the change to Pentair was driven by the potential energy savings of the Intelliflo. Although I don't think that is going to be the base pump they are going to offer, maybe they saw having that option as a potential differentiating factor. I'm sure the equipment manufacturers also try and get each other's clients so it might all be incentives / financial too.

I read your post in the other thread Beary -- sounds like we are experiencing the same storm system. I have drawings but keeping them handy to pull out and show people makes a lot of sense. As Hobert uses mostly their own people and doesn't subcontract very much of the work, you would hope that would help, but I'm not relying on it.

[beary]

I read your post in the other thread Beary -- sounds like we are experiencing the same storm system. I have drawings but keeping them handy to pull out and show people makes a lot of sense. As Hobert uses mostly their own people and doesn't subcontract very much of the work, you would hope that would help, but I'm not relying on it.

Yes, the problem for me was my pool builder was never around while I was trying to show where the workers were doing it wrong. I told him one day that I was tired of arguing for an hour to get small changes made. It was mostly the difference in languages that cause the problem. If I could just point to the drawing, then the workmen could see what I was talking about.

The other reason for a drawing is sometimes even the pool builder didn't understand why I wanted something, so he said he would do it, but ignore me thinking I wouldn't know the difference. We wanted fountains in our two tanning decks and I wanted the plumbing run where I could turn them up or down, or even off. Well the workers put all the fountains and returns all on the same pipe. I argued for an hour with the forman that I needed the fountains on a seperate pipe so I could control them seperately. There was an urgency because the crew was about to shoot the gunite. And once that is done, we would be stuck.

He put a seperate pipe on one fountain, but not the other. Not until my pool builder was showing my equipement was I able to turn valves on and off to show him the effect I wanted. His eyes said it all when I showed him why I wanted to turn off the one fountain and I couldn't. If I had a drawing made up at the time, there would have not been any arguing. Just do it.

I am very happy with my pool and I think our builder is one of best in the city. But I would have done it different next time. For one thing, I would build it in the winter where the crews aren't so pressed to jump on three jobs a day.

Another thing, check out who does the concrete decks.

Keep us up on the building, I know I whined a lot here, but it is actually very exciting.

Beary

[Big_D]

I understand what you mean about the Pentair calculator, however You can do the math yourself as well. I am getting 580 watts to get 40 GPM flow now, I was getting 50 GPM but down sized my return eyes to keep the pressure up for my chlorinator. So I get a complete turn in about 16 hours. This should cost me under a buck a day. My neighbor runs his pumps for 9 hours @ 70 GPM @ 5.4 amps to turn almost the same water. 38K gallons vs. my 39.4k gallons. Note these #’s are from memory which is questionable at times. I have done the math before and I saw savings of approx 50% per day of what my neighbor is using. So the savings is there, but who knows where power cost will be next year. Right now the power rates are coming down again, but just a little.

The 4x160 is also a little cheaper. If I was not going to go with a full Intellitouch system I would have gone the 4x160 route. Honestly you just use about 3-4 settings anyway. You can program the 4x160 to do what you want without the monitoring functions. According to the Pentair rep the equation was simple. Slower flow = more efficient power consumption. So I use more hours but at a much lower flow rate and lower power consumption.

If not an Intelliflo I would definitely look into two speed pumps or energy efficient pumps. Remember this sucker runs 7 days a week 6-10 hours a day and even more in the summer.