Adding Super Blue or other Floculant ?

[rtpatter]

I opened my pool a week ago to a green mess. Have since hammered with bleach and the water is now blue and the FC levels have stabalized but they water is still cloudy in the deep end(see picture you can barely see main drain). Would it be worth it to add a lilttle super blue clarifier or other floculant to see if it would help clarify the water. I think I have done all I can with bleach.

http://i3.tinypic.com/vsgxgz.jpg

[mwsmith2]

Yup, I think some floc would do you good, particularly if you have a sand filter.

Michael

[rtpatter]

Would I better using a clarifier or floculant?

[duraleigh]

Would I better using a clarifier or floculant?

RT,

I almost always agree with Michael's assessment but not this time. Post your numbers for FC, CC, pH, ALK, CYA.

Then, I will be convinced that you've done all you can with bleach. I'll bet you find something in your tests a little out of whack.

Dave S.

[rtpatter]

FC 10 - 15 (depending on when I test)
PH 7.2
ALK 100
CYA 20


I added a half of box or borax last night after I took this test to bump up the PH it has a habit of decreasing over time.

I also added 10 ounces of blue clarifier at lunch to see if it would help. I'll guess I'll know something by tommorrow.

[duraleigh]

Hi, RT,

Yeah, those numbers look okay. I was looking for a test for Combined Chloramines. Does your Cl hold steady overnight? (no drop in the ppm). If it does, you should be good to go.

If your Cl drops maybe just as little as 1 or 2 ppm overnight, however, it's pretty indicative of CC and you still need to bring your Cl back up to around 15ppm...given a CYA of 20ppm.

Dave S.

P.S. It would be helpful to all of us if you don't add anything but the clarifier for a day or so. I have always been under the impression that it is of little value. Your pool seems to be set up to give it a decent test. Hope you report back your results.

[mbar]

Dave, I was wondering if you think it would be a good idea to use flock after a stain treatment, when the stain is all off and there is enough sequestering agent in the water. I was thinking that if you use flock, then shut down the pump overnight, then vacuum to waste, it would then get rid of some of the metal that was in the water - or is the metal that combined with the sequestering agent just going to stay suspended in the water? I really don't know about real chemistry, so please excuse me if this is a silly question!

[duraleigh]

Hi, Marie,

Well, it's certainly not a silly question...in fact, it seems like a good idea. I really don't know enough to have an opinion but, somehow, I get a feeling it's not that easy.

I believe that flocs work by attaching to small particles making them bigger and sinking them....I may be wrong...not positive.

I think sequestering agents work by actually putting the metal particles into something other than a solid state, therefore, the floc may not have anything to "glom" on to and sink it.

If the floc did work, then it seems that would be a surefire method for removing metals but I don't think I've ever heard Ben or anyone say there was any other way short of draining and refill to truly rid your pool of metals.

Now that I've blown four paragraphs of hot air, maybe we'll get a metal guru in here to help us out!!

Dave S.

P.S. RT, we didn't mean to hijack your post...this is a really interesting thought Marie has. Please post your results back on this thread......maybe the moderators will move us "metal-heads" where we belong!!

[waterbear]

Dave, I was wondering if you think it would be a good idea to use flock after a stain treatment, when the stain is all off and there is enough sequestering agent in the water. I was thinking that if you use flock, then shut down the pump overnight, then vacuum to waste, it would then get rid of some of the metal that was in the water - or is the metal that combined with the sequestering agent just going to stay suspended in the water? I really don't know about real chemistry, so please excuse me if this is a silly question!

No question is silly if you don't know the answer! Not asking it is silly!
Floc works on particulate matter suspended (NOT dissolved) in the water which makes it cloudy. If the particles are too small for the filter they will continue to stay in the water. Floc will cause the smaller colloidial particles to clump together into larger particles that the filter will then catch. IMHO floc would be most useful with a sand filter which can filter to about 60 microns and less so with both cartridge and DE filters which can filter much smaller particles (this is just my opinion folks...we can agree to disagree!)
Floc would have absolutely no effect on chelated metals in the water
(they are dissolved in solution) unless the metals were starting to precipitate out(coming out of solution as particles) which is what happens when they show up as stain (they come out of solution and deposit on the surface of the pool).

[mbar]

Evan,
That is what I thought, I used floc about 6 years ago I wwas using baquacil and decided to switch to chlorine. The pool company closed my pool for the winter only putting in algacide and baquacil shock. When they opened the pool in the spring they put in chlorine - what a mess! They didn't know what happened - the water turned a florecent green - then they threw in a bunch of calcium, cya, and kept shocking the pool. Needless to say I ended up with a milky green pool! The water was so unbalanced that I had to drain about 1/2 the water out and start over. When I did get the water cleared up there were brown stains all over it. That's when I decided to do the chemicals myself. I got the stains out, and then put n floc. I didn't get the stains back for the rest of that year. Unfortuanately the next year I got stains again, got rid of them, but didn't use floc. I did get some back. I have not used floc since, but I was thinking after you said that the metals can't be filtered out maybe if they could be somehow made heavier than the water by binding onto something, they could then be filtered out. I still don't know where my metal comes from in my pool. The only thing I can think of is my heater, I think it may be put in after the pump. My well water doesn't test that it has iron, but I do have hard water. I found this website three years ago and I have learned so much.. But I still don't know what is causing my stains, just how to get rid of them. If you think of anything please let me know. I don't worry about the stains since I can get rid of them, but it is driving me crazy trying to figure out where they are coming from, and if the metal can be filtered out of the water once it is back in suspension.