Autism and chlorine

[chem geek]

I hope we can agree to disagree.

I don't think we disagree. I don't believe that mercury (or its related compounds) isn't a cause of health problems and it's pretty stupid to put it into vaccines when there are other alternatives to achieve the same goals. I was just saying that the studies don't show a connection with rising rates of autism which just means that if there is a problem, it isn't "a very good chance you will get health problems if you have a vaccine with mercury". The chance may be small, but tell that to the person who gets the problems. [EDIT] Nevertheless, since autism has had a significant increase, the studies show that vaccines are not the primary cause. That does not mean they don't contribute a small amount under the radar of statistical studies, but it does mean we should look elsewhere for the primary factors since finding those will point to solutions that help the most people. Doctors who see rising rates and then find out that mercury is in vaccines may get a gut feel association, but that does not make it true. Doctors prescribe cholesterol lowering drugs as if it's a cure for heart disease when it is very clear that some people with low cholesterol get heart disease while others with high cholesterol do not. Cholesterol may affect some people with regard to heart disease, but not all, or it may be a symptom and not a cause (inflammation may be more a cause which is why Lipitor is more effective since it reduces inflammation -- but then so does asprin). Doctors do not always know what's best and many often just follow the latest drug trends. That's why the studies I consider most valid are double-blind and funded independently. [END-EDIT]

Most health problems that are related to toxins in the environment come about through cumulative exposure of multiple toxins [EDIT] at a rate faster than the body can break them down [END-EDIT]. It's a statistical game or roulette, similar to carcinogens causing cancer [EDIT] where it's the rate of mutations vs. the body's rate and success of repair [END-EDIT]. It isn't generally a "take this and you get sick", but rather, "get exposed to this and your chances increase by 0.05%" and with enough exposure over time and to multiple sources this percent adds up and with millions of people in a country many will get sick. So I agree that generally one wants to minimize exposure when possible, but it is impossible to eliminate exposure from everything that can cause harm since these same items often have a greater good so some sense of balance is required.

Anyway, we're diverting into a China Shop topic to which this thread seems most appropriate.

Richard

[South_Texas_Sun]

I don't think we disagree. I don't believe that mercury (or its related compounds) isn't a cause of health problems and it's pretty stupid to put it into vaccines when there are other alternatives to achieve the same goals. I was just saying that the studies don't show a connection with rising rates of autism which just means that if there is a problem, it isn't "a very good chance you will get health problems if you have a vaccine with mercury". The chance may be small, but tell that to the person who gets the problems. [EDIT] Nevertheless, since autism has had a significant increase, the studies show that vaccines are not the primary cause. That does not mean they don't contribute a small amount under the radar of statistical studies, but it does mean we should look elsewhere for the primary factors since finding those will point to solutions that help the most people. Doctors who see rising rates and then find out that mercury is in vaccines may get a gut feel association, but that does not make it true. Doctors prescribe cholesterol lowering drugs as if it's a cure for heart disease when it is very clear that some people with low cholesterol get heart disease while others with high cholesterol do not. Cholesterol may affect some people with regard to heart disease, but not all, or it may be a symptom and not a cause (inflammation may be more a cause which is why Lipitor is more effective since it reduces inflammation -- but then so does asprin). Doctors do not always know what's best and many often just follow the latest drug trends. That's why the studies I consider most valid are double-blind and funded independently. [END-EDIT]

Most health problems that are related to toxins in the environment come about through cumulative exposure of multiple toxins [EDIT] at a rate faster than the body can break them down [END-EDIT]. It's a statistical game or roulette, similar to carcinogens causing cancer [EDIT] where it's the rate of mutations vs. the body's rate and success of repair [END-EDIT]. It isn't generally a "take this and you get sick", but rather, "get exposed to this and your chances increase by 0.05%" and with enough exposure over time and to multiple sources this percent adds up and with millions of people in a country many will get sick. So I agree that generally one wants to minimize exposure when possible, but it is impossible to eliminate exposure from everything that can cause harm since these same items often have a greater good so some sense of balance is required.

Anyway, we're diverting into a China Shop topic to which this thread seems most appropriate.

Richard

Richard, I have to admit that I don't have much patience for people who ridicule the efforts of desperate (and I do mean desperate) families who have an autistic child who they are "losing" due to worsening neurological symptoms.

I posted several links in my last batch of posts on this thread and NOT ONE PERSON so much as commented on any of them!

A congressional investigation? Allegations of fraudulent peer review studies and collusion by the CDC, NIH and vaccine manufacturers? Not one comment.

This is, in a nutshell, what the parent of an autistic child goes through on a daily basis. We're far more fortunate than most, because we found and followed a method of treatment that worked for our nephew. Most don't.

In case you're totally unfamiliar with current autism statistics, most victims are young males, suffer first symptoms at birth or ~18 months later. Most are northeastern European descent (German, Norwegian, etc.) and have families with a genetic predispostion towards autism. (more than 1 family male child is likely to be affected)

It was this genetic anomoly that interested Dr. Mark Geier and brought him into the already raging battle a few years back.

Here's some video footage, just to see if anyone is genuinely interested in the topic, and not just doing the usual posturing for discussion board "appearances"

Intro:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...29446182647842

Discussion of peer reviewed studies linking autism and vaccines, CDC, NIH fraud and withholding of congressionally-mandated investigation data from researchers.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...88266603363009

There's a lot more video footage on the google sidebar if you happen to be reading this thread as a parent or relative of an autistic child and are wondering what this is all about.

STS

P.S. As you know, mercury is the second most toxic substance on earth to humans (next to plutonium) and I agree that it has no business in vaccines. However, the threshold of toxicity is much lower for the genetically predisposed subset that I mentioned above, so your discussion of metabolic balance is where the problem arises for these kids. They are not able to excrete the heavy metals.