Autism and chlorine

[duraleigh]

South Texas Sun,

My statement:

No one has established a clear link to the causes of autism.

Your reply:

I'm not sure where all this anti-disabled child sentiment is coming from

Rather than rebutt, I think I'll let your logic stand on it's own merit.......I'm off to Wal-Mart to park in the handicap spaces......they're so convenient.

[South_Texas_Sun]

I have been lurking on this site all summer. I have been truly amazed by the wealth of knowledge that is contained here. I especially enjoy Richard's posts. No offense to Kurt, Waterbear, Ben (among others) that also exhibit tremendous knowledge.

I find Richard to be intellectually honest and forthright with his knowledge. When he knows something, his answer is correct (always). When he is unsure, he will tell you and then he finds the answer. Amazingly, he is profoundly knowledgable even when he is outside his main area of expertise (quantatative chemistry, I assume). And, he posts it in a way that offends no one. If only I had his skills.

What I enjoy about this site is that half truths and junk science are quickly exposed as such. Clearly, we are all here because we follow science. We try to understand our pools chemistry. And we make rational decisions based on the best evidence available to us. Not because some pool kid tells us thats what the computer says to do.

As such, science tells us there is absolutely no evidence that thiomersol causes autism.

Just because you can google something, doesn't make it true. That is why I don't have magnets around my pipes thinking that they will sanitize the water. There is a HUGE difference between an association and causation.

I am not going to let mass torts (vaccines, asbestosis, silacosis) that do not have supporting science guide my actions/ideas either.

While it is truly devastating when a child is sick, sometimes the causes are not easily known. I can sympathize, because I also have a child that is developmentally delayed. We need to stop using labels and treat the child, not the label.

Somehow, I know Richard could have said it better.

adesalvo,

If it's true that your child is "developmentally delayed", I would caution you that that's a symptom at the bottom of the autism spectrum. If you're not familiar with the thorny problems of intentional under-diagnosis and FAPE, you'd better learn quick. (public services like Easter Seals have free diagnostic testing and are veritable wealth of other information about treatment options)

The younger the child, the more difficult it is to accurately diagnose the condition and most won't even test before 18 months. Easter Seals will and I hate to say this, but it's ON YOU to insist that you get the testing and services you need. Nobody will throw down the gauntlet for you...there are too many other kids in the same boat.

Do yourself a favor and stay out of catfights like this one. You'll learn a lot more by doing your own research and reading, and you won't spend a lot of time defending self evident truth, once you find it.

Best wishes, and anyone who has legitimate further questions can pm me, and I'll do my best to help.

STS

P.S. Anyone who thinks that there's going to a successful class action lawsuit against drug companies, paying back all the victims of vaccine damage, is DREAMING. There are millions of austistic children who will, once they come of age, be unable to support themselves, have to rely on public support or join the ranks of the homeless once their parents are gone or destitute. The social cost is staggering, but the financial cost is several TRILLION dollars, estimated at the low end with govt. figures.

Implications for Social Security and other promised entitlement programs? Don't ask. Don't tell.

[South_Texas_Sun]

I totally agree with KurtV. No one has established a clear link to the causes of autism.

Hi Duraleigh,

I'm not sure where all this anti-disabled child sentiment is coming from (especially on a swimming pool forum) , but you should know that there's a serious possibility that the vaccine industry has knowingly been involved in poisoning the public and attempting to cover their tracks in order to avoid massive liability litigation that would bankrupt the industry and undermine the credibility of pharma industry-funded research.

Don't belive me? Here's congressional testimony.

http://thinktwice.com/autism1.htm


And with (according to California State figures) 1 in every 165 kids being born or becoming autistic early in life, don't you think it's a good idea to figure out why? (Autism wasn't even a disease until the 1950's!)

Some other random links.... (google autism mercury if you want a real eyefull.)

http://www.vran.org/vaccines/autism/aut-rimland.htm
http://diet-studies.com/megson.html
http://www.mercola.com/2000/apr/16/c..._testimony.htm

STS

[South_Texas_Sun]

The "hypotheses" about links between autisim and thimerosal have been pretty thoroughly debunked (over and over again). No reputable study that's been done to date has found any link and the "studies" that have found such a link have all been seriously flawed or downright fraudulent.

To make wild suppositions about chlorine and autism is, I think, irresponsible. Just as the unfounded vaccine scare resulted in some children not getting vaccinated against real and serious threats, a chlorine scare that results in insufficiently sanitized drinking and bathing water may well cause more people to contract real and serious diseases.

Hi KurtV,

These are hardly "wild suppostions". Our family has seen a complete turnaround in our nephew from severe autism (constant shrill screaming, spinning in circles on the floor under a table, and unwillingness to make eye contact or even acknowledge his mom's presence) to a normal happy, healthy, and social 10 yr. old boy who's IQ score went up over 20 points over the years of treatment.

You really should be more careful about posting on unfamiliar subjects on which you have no personal experience.

You could wind up causing the opposite effect from the one you described...i.e. Discouraging hopeless parents from trying a treatment that has worked for thousands of others, irrespective of medical industry opinion.

STS

[KurtV]

Hi KurtV,

These are hardly "wild suppostions". Our family has seen a complete turnaround in our nephew from severe autism (constant shrill screaming, spinning in circles on the floor under a table, and unwillingness to make eye contact or even acknowledge his mom's presence) to a normal happy, healthy, and social 10 yr. old boy who's IQ score went up over 20 points over the years of treatment.
I'm not sure what your anecdote about the treatment of your nephew's autism has to do with the state of the science on a link beween thimerosal and autism. Regardless, my caution was against making "wild suppositions" about a link between autism and chlorine. Maybe I should have said basless or unfounded instead, but I think my point remains valid: There is real danger in making invalid assumptions and unsupported accusations.

You really should be more careful about posting on unfamiliar subjects on which you have no personal experience.
I'm truly sorry that your family has had to deal with these difficult medical issues. That said, you know nothing about my familiarity with the subject or my personal experience. If you percieve an inaccuracy in my post, deal with that on its merits or lack thereof. Dismissing my arguments with ad hominem pejoratives that are built on assumptions for which you have no basis, and which have no bearing on the substance of those statements, does you no credit.

You could wind up causing the opposite effect from the one you described...i.e. Discouraging hopeless parents from trying a treatment that has worked for thousands of others, irrespective of medical industry opinion.
Again, my post had nothing to do with medical treatment of anything. I don't even know what treatment you're speaking of.

STS

Regards,
kv

[South_Texas_Sun]

I'm not sure what your anecdote about the treatment of your nephew's autism has to do with the state of the science on a link beween thimerosal and autism. Regardless, my caution was against making "wild suppositions" about a link between autism and chlorine. Maybe I should have said basless or unfounded instead, but I think my point remains valid: There is real danger in making invalid assumptions and unsupported accusations.

I'm truly sorry that your family has had to deal with these difficult medical issues. That said, you know nothing about my familiarity with the subject or my personal experience. If you percieve an inaccuracy in my post, deal with that on its merits or lack thereof. Dismissing my arguments with ad hominem pejoratives that are built on assumptions for which you have no basis, and which have no bearing on the substance of those statements, does you no credit.

Again, my post had nothing to do with medical treatment of anything. I don't even know what treatment you're speaking of.

STS

KurtV, don't be so modest! You're still strutting around pretending to know something that you, in fact, know nothing about besides what a 10 second google search can tell you.

How about the 1800+ search hits on thimerosal on medline? Or the 1100+ hits on Pubmed? Surely there's fodder for discussion in the over 1 MILLION hits for autism mercury on Google? How about the US Congressional investigations? The list is LITERALLY endless.

You ADMIT you have no idea what I'm talking about and try to change the subject to my supposed "ad homininem perjoratives". Why don't you stop pretending to sit in judgement on a subject of which you're completely ignorant, and do some research yourself? You could start with the links I've provided.

STS

[JohnT]

P.S. There's a movement afoot to correct the diagnostic terminology regarding doctor or vaccine-created "autism". Many now insist on calling it "toxic encephalopathy", just in case they want to google the related links.

There's also a movement afoot to call it bull$%#^, but that's only by scientists and doctors who've studied it.

[South_Texas_Sun]

There's also a movement afoot to call it bull$%#^, but that's only by scientists and doctors who've studied it.

Hey JohnT! Don't hold back! Tell us what you REALLY think!......lol

My 10 year old nephew, who was formerly diagnosed as severely autistic, now has a better grasp of basic electricity than you demonstrated on that electrical shock thread, and can breadboard a 12 volt power supply faster than most kids can plug in a wall wart.

Try that on for "bull$%#^", bubba!

STS

[drumr]

South Texas Sun:
It is very encouraging to hear the positive results that your nephew has achieved. I will pass this on to the young man's mother. It sounds like the young man I am speaking of is going through the same type of therapy that your nephew went through. I understand it is a very slow process. I don't know alot about autism other than what the mother has told me and the progress I have seen this special person make. He was born normal. It was after he started his immunization shots that he started developing autism at about 1 year old.

I am no expert in this subject by any means, and not trying to encourage a big fight over the causes autism. This is what the young man's parents believe has happened to him. Through the special diet and medicine and therapy, he has shown improvement.

If the mods feel like this belongs in the China shop, please feel free to move it.