Under Water Vinyl Wall Stains

[CelticDaddio]

What is a sequestering agent?
Ed

No, you don't have to drain the pool! Small pool dad did a different stain treatment. I will print the ascorbic acid treatment - ascorbic acid is vitamin C. The fact that the vitamin C took the stain off makes me believe that the stain is from metals. The stuff you were able to take off with a sponge was either algae, or metals that fell out of solution into more of a solid that was able to be washed off. You may have algae, because you need a minimum of 8ppms of chlorine in your pool at all times when you have a cya of 100 in order to have a really sanitized pool. Here is a copy of the best guess chart:

Ben's 'best guess' FC/Stabilizer table for algae free operation of OUTDOOR pools -- as of July 2003 --

Use the info in this chart to help you figure out what levels of chlorine you need to maintain in your pool based on the amount of CYA (cyanuric acid, also called stabilizer) that you have in your pool. (FC = free chlorine)

Stabilizer . . . . . . Min. FC . . . . Max FC . . . 'Shock' FC
=> 0 ppm . . . . . . . 1 ppm . . . . . 3 ppm . . . . 10 ppm
=> 10 - 20 ppm . . . . 2 ppm . . . . . 5 ppm . . . . 12 ppm
=> 30 - 50 ppm . . . . 3 ppm . . . . . 6 ppm . . . . 15 ppm
=> 60 - 90 ppm . . . . 5 ppm . . . . . 10 ppm . . .. 20 ppm
=> 100 - 200 ppm . . . 8 ppm . . . . . 15 ppm . . .. 25 ppm

Here are two links you can get ascorbic acid. The link from the "chemistry store" gets you the ascorbic acid faster, but the other link lets you get a smaller amount.:

http://www.chemistrystore.com/Ascorbic_Acid.htm

http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...scorbic%20Acid

Here is the ascorbic acid treatment:

Here is the ascorbic treatment:
You will need about a half to one pound of ascorbic acid per 10,000 gal. I like to go lighter on it and see if all the

Put the filter on circulate.
Use a cup and go around the perimeter of the pool and drop it down the sides as you go.
Let the ascorbic acid circulate for 1/2 hour. You will be amazed how the stain just disappears before your eyes.

If the stain is not all gone, leave the filter in circulate and add more ascorbic acid close to where you still see stain. Leave it in circulate until all of the stain is gone. (add more ascorbic acid if it circulates for 1/2 hour and there is still stain)

When the stain is gone, add enough sequestering agent for the volume of your pool - more is better than not enough.

Put the filter back on filter and leave it on 24/7.

The ascorbic acid will bring your ph down, after 24 hours you can start to bring up your ph and alkalinity - use baking soda first, it will raise both ph and alk. Make sure you test in between, because you don't wantyour ph to go any higher than 7.2. If your alkalinity is in range, and you still need to raise your ph, use Borax to take it up to no higher than 7.2. After 48 hours you can start to bring up your chlorine. You want to do this slowly. It will take a lot of chlorine - I prefer to use bleach only at this time, and try to take it up to your minimum chlorine for your cya according to the "best guess chart" Do not shock! Do not shock for at least 2 weeks! Make sure you keep your ph low for (7.2) for a week or two - it won't be hard because the ascorbic acid will help it stay low. Once your chlorine starts to hold, it means that you have used up the ascorbic acid in the water and it will be easy to rebalance the pool back to your regular parameters.

If you plan to close your pool soon, I would suggest you wait till the spring to do the stain treatment. I have already closed with stains and opened to a stain free pool, so you may just want to enjoy your pool till you close and deal with it next year when you open.

If you have any other questions feel free to ask

[mbar]

A sequestering agent is a chemical that binds with the metals in the water to keep them in suspension so that they don't precipitate out and land on the surface of the pool making an ugly stain. There are many on the market - Jack's Magic, ProTeam, Metal Free, look for something that says it controls metals in the water, and it should say it is a sequestering agent. These are a few that I have tried, and they work. You need a sequestering agent in the water if you are getting rid of stains so that the metal that is lifted off the surface of the pool will not just precipitate out again. It is really hard to get rid of metals in the water completely, so just keeping them in suspension by having them bind with a sequestering agent is good. Let me know if you have any other questions

[CelticDaddio]

You may have algae, because you need a minimum of 8ppms of chlorine in your pool at all times when you have a cya of 100 in order to have a really sanitized pool.

Now I understand why I keep having algae problems.... I haven't been accounting for CYA levels when adjusting my chlorine. Duh!

Use a cup and go around the perimeter of the pool and drop it down the sides as you go.

I crushed about a dozen vitamin C tablets yesterday, put it in a sock, and rubbed it on the steps.... voila no more stain. So I want to try the ascorbic acid treatment. I have one question though....

Do I take a cup of the ascorbic acid and pour it in at the edge of the pool all the way around my pool and let it sink/disolve? I have a 20' x 40' vinyl IG, 30000 gal pool. That would be a perimeter of about 120'. Over what distance, should I distribute the cup of ascorbic acid? Or am I getting too geeking here...? How much do you think I would need? For the whole pool. I have look at some of the stuff to put on steps at the pool store but it seems very expensive ... I would need two bottles of StainStuff mentioned above and that would be around $60.

[mbar]

There are two links in the post you copied that are a cheaper way to get ascorbic acid - the second website you can get 5lbs for $45.
http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...scorbic%20Acid you will need about 3lbs. I use a pound for every 10,000 gal. You can go around the perimeter of the pool, it doesn't have to be exact - that's why you put the pump on circulate for about an hour, so that it mixes well, and will take the all the stains off. Don't forget that once all of the stains are gone, you have to put in the sequestering agent, so that the metals can bind with it, so that they dont' fall out again when you start to add chlorine. Let me know if you have any questions. Don't feel like you should have known about the cya chlorine thing - the pool stores don't ever tell you that - and half of them don't even know it themselves Stick with this forum and you will be able to have a clean clear pool all summer by taking care of it yourself

[CelticDaddio]

Thanks for the info. Just order 4 pounds... As for a sequestering agent, is that something I have to buy at a pool supply store, or is there a grocery store equivalent?

Ed

There are two links in the post you copied that are a cheaper way to get ascorbic acid - the second website you can get 5lbs for $45.
http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.c...scorbic%20Acid you will need about 3lbs. I use a pound for every 10,000 gal. You can go around the perimeter of the pool, it doesn't have to be exact - that's why you put the pump on circulate for about an hour, so that it mixes well, and will take the all the stains off. Don't forget that once all of the stains are gone, you have to put in the sequestering agent, so that the metals can bind with it, so that they dont' fall out again when you start to add chlorine. Let me know if you have any questions. Don't feel like you should have known about the cya chlorine thing - the pool stores don't ever tell you that - and half of them don't even know it themselves Stick with this forum and you will be able to have a clean clear pool all summer by taking care of it yourself

[kingbud]

made this post 5/10/07:

Ahhh, the mellow, friendly vibe of the PoolForum. So nice to be back. Course, I wouldn't be here reading if there wasn't just the teensiest little problem of my own. Hmmmm.... Vitamin C tablets, eh? Wouldn't hurt to have a little stash of those around the house anyway, and they're certainly not very expensive.

So. My pool man (me) did the ascsorbic acid treatment on 5/12/07. The stain did LITERALLY vanish before my eyes. Freakish, bizarre. I was slowly working around the pool edge dropping the powder in and I happened to look up before I was even finished going around and a large area opposite was already clear! So.

But today I wanted to say this: yesterday, May 24, was the first day I did not have to dump in chlorine (bleach), ie, did not have a zero reading. (I did follow instructions and put in the amount I believed correct according to the "best guess" chart - in my case about 8 ppm.) that means it took 13 days for the pool to stabilize with respect to chlorine. Does that sound right? Everything appears to be just as happy as a clam now. All the other values are fine. I should mention that my Ph behaved perversely according to what I read here - it never went down. I do not have a good tester, but the color on a test strip indicates a strong Ph, around 7.6 or higher. Now that the chlorine has settled down I plan to go to the pool store and have a test done. I'd appreciate any comments....

I still can't believe the way that stain disappeared

PS how do I lower Ph without lowering total alkalinity? would appreciate a helpful nudge from anyone on this question...

[mbar]

Yes, it could take that long to have the chlorine stabalize. Pools are very strang They all act a little differently I had a very hard time balancing my water the first time I did the stain treatment - but I had the whole pool stained yellow, plus some really big stains on top of that. My ph was something that I had a really hard time keeping up too. As for how to lower ph without lowering the alkalinity - use muriatic acid, or ph down. THis may lower the alk slightly - but very slightly, because the only way to get rid of alkalinity is to gas it off by aerating the water, which will then raise your ph It is a really good plan if you have high alk with low ph Just use some muriatic acid (be careful with it) You can go to the bleach calc and do more calcs, and it will help you with lowering the ph. I suggest you invest in a good test kit - it will save you tons of money in the long run, and lots of trips to the pool store Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.