Baby Fence

[CarlD]

You absolutely do not want to cheat or cut corners on your fence or gate.

Pools are dangerous and, as Ben says, full of the deadliest pool chemical of all....water.

I am very leery of those netting fences--they can be cut easily and scissors are everywhere. Just my opinion.

[sb2323]

We got our first pool when our kids were 1, 3, and 6. We're on our second pool now and the kids are 3, 4, and 7. On both pools we had a 4' wrought iron fence installed around it, with a key lock. I don't think 3' is sufficient. We had them powder coated a dark brown color, as we find it not as harsh as the black. You can get them coated any color you want. The powder coating is much more durable than the paint, and doesn't chip/peel. The whole fence, around pool and spa, ran us about $5k. That included custom fitting it around the curves and hand-welding each individual picket. They bolt the fence sections directly into the concrete, and it would be simple to unbolt them and fill in the holes if you (or future owners) decide somewhere along the line that it's not needed anymore.

At some point your daughter and/or friends, siblings will want to play in the backyard and you will not want to supervise them every minute. You never know what kids (especially other people's kids!) will do, so pay the extra money now and get yourself a fence that they cannot sabotage!

IMO the pool needs to be secured as soon as your child is mobile. Definitely get something around that pool now, even the most diligent parents can get distracted (pulling a few weeds, winding up the hose, etc.) and it's just not worth the risk. "Just a second" can turn into a couple minutes before you know it, and that's all it takes. And swim lessons are important and good, but ask any lifeguard/EMT and they will tell you that even excellent swimmers, especially children, can panic in water over their heads, not to mention leg cramps, etc. My husband's cousin is a firefighter and he said children have drowned in water *where they could stand*. They just panicked and didn't have the presence of mind to stand up.

[CarlD]

A 3' fence is not code. 4' is code. AG pools don't have the same rules--if your steps/ladder is code (self-closing) then the fence ON TOP OF THE AG POOL can be 3'.

It's all about access. My pool is AG, but because you access it off the deck, I did it to IG code on the fencing and gate.

[sleater]

A 3' fence is not code. 4' is code.

again, we have a 4' fence around the yard
the baby fence is for inside the yard, to separate the pool from the rest of the yard

re: 3' not being sufficient --> please explain why 3 feet is insufficient.
my thinking is if they can climb a 3 ft fence they can climb a 4ft fence no?
also, by the time they can climb a fence they should be swimming like "fish" anyways?
also, we'd create a strict set of rules regarding the pool area and no fence climbing would be part of those rules.

ultimately, isn't conscious supervision is the most important thing?

[sleater]

sgt
just watched the catch a kid video
it looks cumbersome and i wouldn't trust it alone as displayed in the video
i'd bet it'd lose tension within a summer or two

guess ultimately, i don't like the solution to be something a kid can crawl on above the water -- inevitably it'll become a toy ...

i think that thing would scare me.

jmho

[sleater]

sb23
just went outside and thought about it some more
we will give serious consideration to a 4ft fence

thanks for the input

ps: serious consideration means thats probably the way we'll go

[sb2323]

Sleater,

So glad you will probably go with the 4' fence. I read your earlier post asking why a 3' fence isn't sufficient and to tell you the truth it scared me half to death. And I am by no means an overprotective mother, most would say I'm somewhat to the contrary. But IMHO there is no comparison between, say, letting a 2 year old climb all over a playscape, risking a skinned knee or at worst a broken bone, and what could happen if your child somehow wandered into the back yard while you were showering, vacuuming, etc. and got into the pool area.

I was reading in our local paper just a couple weeks ago about a 4 year old who was terribly mauled by a pit bull in his back yard. A dog he had grown up with since birth, and who had never shown any hostility whatsoever towards the boy. Nonetheless, his mother made a point never to leave the boy alone with the dog. Unfortunately, just the day before, the latch on the back door had broken and they hadn't yet had someone out to repair it. The boy wandered out while his mom was in a back room. It will take over 20 surgeries to try to repair the damage done.

I truly believe that the only reason any child lives to see its 3rd birthday is by the grace of God. No matter how dilligent the parents, there is always room for human error. Never has the old saying been more true, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." Keeping a close eye on your child, having clear rules strongly enforced, and teaching your child to swim are all definitely important parts of pool safety. But noe of them is nearly infallible as a strong, impenetrable barrier to keep them from reaching the pool in the first place.

At 14 months your little one is just beginning to become really mobile. Ask any parent of a child older than 3, not to mention those who have more than one child (don't know if that's in your future plans, but having friends over surely is), and they will tell you that a 3' fence would probably be sufficient to keep them from trampling flowers, but not to keep them from something really enticing. And your daughter will reach the stage, as my 3 and 4 year olds are right now, where she has learned the rudimentary basics of swimming and thinks she is a lot better at it than she really is. That, IMHO, is the most dangerous phase--overconfidence in one's own abilities, not yet developed a healthy respect for the dangers that water poses, and very little ability to exercise good judgement.

Anyway, I'm glad to read that you are leaning heavily towards the 4' fence. Like I said, we are well-pleased with the wrought iron. We went for the simplest style, endcaps, etc. to keep it as unobtrusive as possible. I wish you good luck in your search for the perfect fence!

Susan

[leejp]

I'll install myself to save some $$$ (looks straightforward enough).

http://www.cantar.com/product.asp?ProdID=8
http://www.safetyguardfence.com/

Available here:

http://diypoolfence.webdirectbrands.com/

http://cgi.ebay.com/SAFETYGUARD-Safe...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/SWIMMING-POOL-FE...QQcmdZViewItem

I actually already have a fence around my backyard. This fence will go around the pool only for additional protection. Pending configuration, It'll be $1000-1500 for my 18x36 IG.

If anyone has a better suggestion/prices... let me know!

[sleater]

leejay
we looked at that one as well
was concerned about whether it might be flimsy ... didn't look into it enough to say for sure ...
in our case, we didn't want the fence right beside the pool and since, on one side, we have only a 3ft sidewalk, i'd have had to put a portion of the fence on the lawn -- i figured trying to level that and keep the fence standing straight a year or two down the road would be a bear.
plus ... can that thing stay up in the winter without getting compromised?

my two cents ...

[PoolDoc]

Knowledgeable people differ passionately about what 'appropriate' or 'reasonable' levels of care and risk should be for small children. This always makes it a difficult topic to discuss . . . it's hard not to feel that someone who disagrees with you is acting in a way that's immoral.

But, the reality is that parents have to have the right to use their own best judgement about their own children. And this right inevitably means that they have to have the right to make mistakes -- including some serious ones -- with their own kids. People sometimes find themselves wanting to disagree with this idea; the tendency is to say, "Well, somebody ought to do something!"

The problem is that the only "somebody" left is the government. Forgive me for being political for a moment, but I believe that the both the old Soviet Union and Hitler's Nazi regime tried that approach, with results that were nothing short of horrifying. And, everyone I know who's seen the 'foster care' system up close and personal has concluded that even some pretty awful homes are better, on the average, than foster care! (And that's not a criticism of foster care: I'm not sure that there's an alternative in some cases of abuse or neglect. I'm just saying that the 'solution', while sometimes necessary, is itself often pretty horrible by its very nature.)

So, unless you want to advocate that governments should assume the responsibilty for child care, a la Brave New World or worse, 1984, you have to let parents make their own imperfect judgements. Personally, though I grew up around large aggressive dogs, I'd never have a pit bull. But, I believe that responsible parents have made judgements on that topic that they have the right, and responsibility, to make even though I disagree.

Just how safe pools should be made is a similar topic.

In the past, I've often told here how important I think it is to watch children constantly when they are in the water. I know that many parents don't have the knowledge that I do about how fast small children can drown. But, I still tend to feel that such parents -- and they are many; I see them by the dozens every summer -- are acting irresponsibly. But I don't think they should be arrested: I believe they have the right, and responsibility, to make decisions for their children. And I know, that in the real world, that includes decisions that I disagree with, and which I think are seriously mistaken.

I think this thread was drifting past providing information, toward arguing what which way was best. For the reasons I mentioned above, I don't think that's a really fruitful direction.

So, in my very own dictatorial way, I'm leaving the information, locking the thread, and letting the parents involved make their own decisions -- right or wrong, as the case may be.

Sincerely,

Ben
PoolDoc