Going Solar need your help

[CarlD]

I don't know much about heat pumps--just a little. Pool heating is an ideal application--the outside air is warm (in heat pump terms--in the 50's or higher) so they get into their super-efficient range, far more so than gas.

H/Ps have a bad rep because they were used for heating and cooling houses in Northern Virginia (near DC) where it's far too cold for them to be efficient in the winter. But for pools they are supposed to be terrific.

They are expensive to install--2 to 3x what a gas heater costs, but far more efficient. If you need to heat a pool fast, though, they aren't so good--gas is better. But keeping it warm? I gather they can't be beat.

Are they better than solar? In some ways yes, in some ways no.

If you can do both, it would be great. You are in Florida, though, where you get lots and lots of sun.

[TMan]

One question about the return line - Ive noticed in the ads for the prebuilt panels (the kind they show on the ground, standing tilted near the side of an AG pool) that the return lines are flexible pipe.
Can you use the flexible return lines like most AG owners have currently? Isn't the water too hot for flex? I was planning to use my current flex so I don't have to buy any more fixtures but was thinking about the heat?
I'm currently in the 'build' stage of my home built solar heater.
We get over 300 days of sun here in AusTX and we stopped swimming 2 weeks ago, just because we got 2 'cold' fronts and temps dropped into the mid-80s during the day. Yesterday it was 90+ and today it will be also, 9hrs of sun. I'm using 1/2" poly pipe off a 5-outlet header into 50' of hose each, 250' of hose, coiled in a used hard pvc pond (empty of course). With the sun I'm hoping for an added boost of 2-3deg. to current pool temps of 75-77. Night temps in the upper 50's are dropping the pool temp so any recovery is slow. Hoping a little help from my home-built will have us swimming in the evenings/weekends.
TomC

[towney]

I don't know much about heat pumps--just a little. Pool heating is an ideal application--the outside air is warm (in heat pump terms--in the 50's or higher) so they get into their super-efficient range, far more so than gas.

H/Ps have a bad rep because they were used for heating and cooling houses in Northern Virginia (near DC) where it's far too cold for them to be efficient in the winter. But for pools they are supposed to be terrific.

They are expensive to install--2 to 3x what a gas heater costs, but far more efficient. If you need to heat a pool fast, though, they aren't so good--gas is better. But keeping it warm? I gather they can't be beat.

Are they better than solar? In some ways yes, in some ways no.

If you can do both, it would be great. You are in Florida, though, where you get lots and lots of sun.

Thanks gain CarlID
If this is of any help I do have a Starite 400K propane heater so I could use this in conjuction with either. But I still at an impass on which one.

[tphaggerty]

Solar should not get so hot that you can't use flex, BUT, there is no way you can tie that into your normal pump system, you would have to have a separate return to the pool (I think Poconos does it this way, he has a return running on the deck under his diving board just for solar - excuse me in advance if I'm wrong! Someone is doing it this way). Generally, an efficient solar system will return water that is no more than 5 degrees or so above the current pool temp.

[CarlD]

I use separate returns for my solar panels. In fact I have mine as two independent systems, each with its own return.

[Poconos]

That's me...separate return hoses dumping into the deep end and running under the diving board to keep them out of the way. I tie a bleach bottle loaded with sand to the ends to keep the hose ends deep.
Al

[brent.roberts]

Here is a link that has all the unbiased information you need to make a good decision. It is the Florida State University of Central Florida .

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/solar/instal...t/poolinst.htm

It has sections for other solar applications as well as pools.

I find the navigation around the site very UN-intuititve. You'll have to work at finding the good stuff.
For example you'll need to do a lot of mining to find this page,

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/solar/testce.../tprpoolap.htm

which is half of the efficiency testing of panels for pools, this is makers A to P. Q to Z is nearby. ( they do have another for domestic hot water heaters )

The rule of thumb seems to be
1) the cheapest panels have the least amount of plastic and are the least durable and the poorest investment
2) they ( the cheapest) seem to rate pretty high on the efficiency test because they have thin walls, but are again not the best investment.

I selected Techno-solis using this guide. Our home lot is on a hill with the pool just about at the top, so a south facing slope became a great site for the panels. They are literally just thrown on the ground and connected to the plumbing. The dogs chase the rabbits across them. I walk on them. Snow sits on them all winter. Absolutely no problems.

Anyway, read up and you'll make get what you need.

[TMan]

Thanks TP and Brent. Are you saying you can't tie the solar output into the return line to the pool? Surely it's done all the time, right? Isn't that what the T and 3-way valves shown in the 'easy installation' guides show? What am I missing? Hope to have a lot done by tomorrow on my setup. I'll post pics and obviously, data. Output temp, pool temp..etc. Thanks for all the ideas and links.

[tphaggerty]

Are you saying you can't tie the solar output into the return line to the pool? Surely it's done all the time, right? Isn't that what the T and 3-way valves shown in the 'easy installation' guides show? What am I missing?

It all depends on the type of panels and tubing. AG pools use the spiral flex type hose (looks like a vacuum cleaner hose or an IG vacuum hose) all the time. These are rated for fairly low pressure (they are generally joined by metal band clamps).

What I was saying is that if you have that type of return hose on the panels, you cannot join that to a permanent return that uses schedule 40 or flex PVC because the pressure will blow that line up. If you use that type of panel, just make sure the return goes directly to the pool (for an IG). For AG, you can T it in to the return (you will need the special barb type fittings)

For IG installations, the source and return lines for the panels are pressure rated, just like the rest of the plumbing. They need to be able to handle the 30+ psi that an IG pool pump will product. As in my case, the solar is pumped in AFTER the filter, but before my SWG (you want clean water, but not high chlorine). Hope this helps.

[TMan]

Thx TP, I have an AG but I'm plumbing it with schd. 40 anyway, and will T it in, almost finished. Another issue, I'm using a SWG too and want to plumb it in Before the solar heater, not after. This is because the model I have reduces chlorine output when the water gets warm, anything above 90-degrees for mine and the 'check cell' light starts flashing. I expect the heated return water to be well above that. Then it will not be generating at optimum meaning more run time during the evening/morning, cooling off the pool and then I'm going backwards. It'a a Goldline AquaTrol for AG pools and works well, within a range. What do you think of running the chlorinated water thru the solar heaters? I'm guessing that now it's hotter, chlorinated water being returned to the pool.