good pool design

[buck1s]

The subject refers more to mechanical, plumbing, and electrical, rather than shape/layout. I know this info used to be available in the now-deleted forums, and I'd like to exist here now. I'm considering having a pool built soon, and I'd like to know these things before working on a contract with a builder.

Plumbing:

Separate returns for mains and skimmers?
Size of returns?
Any valves better than others?

Electrical:
Lightning do's/don'ts?

Mechanical:
Steel requirements (in case of gunite/shotcrete)?
Equipment layout?

Please add anything you can think of. I know this is a lot to ask, but we can help new folks with a post referral in the future.

Chris

[PoolDesignnet]

Hi,

A good design includes a good pool layout. But to answer some of your other questions....

Plumbing:

Separate returns for mains and skimmers?

There should always be separate suction lines from main drains and skimmer. Some pool companies ( to save a couple of dollars) will connect the skimmer to the main drain. Not a good design...

Size of returns?

The returns are 1-1/2" through the wall. The main return line size depends on the pump size which depends on several factors such as how many gallons and how far is the equipment and are there any water features that will be on this pump in addition to the pool recirculation. How may returns depends on on pool shape and size.

Any valves better than others?

A valve such as Jandy neverlube is better than a ball valve.

Electrical:
Lightning do's/don'ts?

If you can help it.. the light should point away from the house. It should not be installed in the shallow end as that will show all imperfections in the pool floor. For safety reasons I always show a 12v light rather than 120v even if it's allowed.

Mechanical:
Steel requirements (in case of gunite/shotcrete)?

Steen and concrete thickness will be determined by the engineer based on your soil conditions, depth of the pool and any additional load on the pool from adjacent structures.

Zina
www.PoolDesign.net

The subject refers more to mechanical, plumbing, and electrical, rather than shape/layout. I know this info used to be available in the now-deleted forums, and I'd like to exist here now. I'm considering having a pool built soon, and I'd like to know these things before working on a contract with a builder.

Plumbing:

Separate returns for mains and skimmers?
Size of returns?
Any valves better than others?

Electrical:
Lightning do's/don'ts?

Mechanical:
Steel requirements (in case of gunite/shotcrete)?
Equipment layout?

Please add anything you can think of. I know this is a lot to ask, but we can help new folks with a post referral in the future.

Chris

[buck1s]

Thanks for getting us started Zina. Can you clear some things up for me about the plumbing info you provided. You say returns are 1.5" through the wall. Is there an implication that this changes after that. I understand it is not a good idea to connect skimmer and main drains, but in a pool with 2 main drains, is it general practice to use one pipe back to the equipment for both? What about skimmers?

Is there any kind of future proofing people generally do when building a pool? Extra electrical work for future heater installation if not doing it now?

What about using automatic pool cleaners? My quote had an option for a Polaris auto cleaner (not sure which model). Do all Polaris' models work with the help of the pump or are they electric and have their own pumps?

Thanks again.
Chris

[PoolDesignnet]

Hi Chris,

The two main drains are connected and one line is connected with a "t" and runs back to the equipment. The reason for two main drains is anti-entrapmentn protection.

The reason return lines are 1-1/2" through the wall is because the inlet eyeball fitting is made to fit into it. The main return line will depend on the factors I mentioned before, but usually 1-1/2" or 2".

Looking to the future... if you are thinking of getting a heater later on, the plumber can do a heater stub-out. You can do the electic to the heater also, but it will be extra.

Not all Polaris cleaners require a booster pump. I believe there is 280, 360, 380, and 480. You can check them all out on www.polarispool.com.

There are also suction side cleaners such as a Hayward Navigator. (Polaris is a pressure side cleaner).

[waste]

Thanks for getting us started Zina. Can you clear some things up for me about the plumbing info you provided. You say returns are 1.5" through the wall. Is there an implication that this changes after that. I understand it is not a good idea to connect skimmer and main drains, but in a pool with 2 main drains, is it general practice to use one pipe back to the equipment for both? What about skimmers?

Is there any kind of future proofing people generally do when building a pool? Extra electrical work for future heater installation if not doing it now?

What about using automatic pool cleaners? My quote had an option for a Polaris auto cleaner (not sure which model). Do all Polaris' models work with the help of the pump or are they electric and have their own pumps?

Thanks again.
Chris

Chris, first let me say that Zina's advice above was so good that I did not feel I could add more yesterday when I first saw it, but I bookmarked it for the followups (waayy cool thread feature )
Now let's get to your new questions -
Re: skimmer and MD tied together, I don't like it for many reasons, the main one being that if something goes wrong with the common line, you are screxxx - um, ... left without a suction source until that line is repaired

Re: 2 MDs tied together - YES! always tie the multiple deepwater suctions together to prevent 'suction drowning' (having the 2 tied together should allow a swimmer to break the suction, which might otherwise drown them!)

Re: 2 skim/ 1 line - I prefer to keep skimmers separate because of the 'common line' thing above , though if finances dictate a sharing of lines Hayward skimmers (the only ones I KNOW for sure, from experience) have a 'flap valve" which can regulate suction when 2 are used in series. ( Other manufaturers' models probably have them too)

Re: 1.5 through wall - I won't say that no one makes a different sized wall fitting, but 1.5 is the norm. What size pipe is used beyond the wall is a question of equalizing pressure to the returns and performing calculations (not difficult ones, but I no longer have the info) baised on pump and filter size, the lenght (or run) of the plumbing, etc.

Re:the rest - Some pool builders will, of course- for a price, install 'reserve lines'. When my company builds a pool, we include a reserve line for each skimmer (the ones we install have 2 ports in the bottom) and 1 or 2 extra returns ( the liner is not cut out of the 'return reserve', until needed.) The pipes for these lines are not plumbed into the filter system but, are 'stubbed up' next to the active pipes (for easy switch over, should they ever be needed.
If you need clarification on any of this, just post it here, I'm listening

[PoolDesignnet]

Good point about the skimmers... I forgot to mention that.

About the 1-1/2" directionals.... One of my customers made a mistake and stubbed 2" through the wall. I went on a search for a 2" fitting and could not find one. If any one knows if such a thing is out there, please let me know.

And please forgive all the typos in my posts. I'm using a lap top and those long fingernails.......

[CarlD]

Very interesting!

Setting up stub-outs should be a no-brainer for the installer since they are working with PVC. They can be capped out with a glued-on cap that gets sawed off, or a screw end with either a screw in plug or a screw on cap, depending on whether it's a F or M fitting. PVC is SO easy to work it doesn't matter which.

They shouldn't charge you much for setting up for a future heater--just for the extra fittings and maybe 15 minutes labor--if they do it as they run the lines.

If you are having electrical setup done, have the electrician run the lines for the future heater as well. Even if all he does is pull the wire and leave it near the box in the house, it will help. I had my electrician run 220v 40amp cable. He ran it from the box to just inside the wall near where a heater would go. If I ever put in a heater, it will be a heatpump and the wiring is ready to go.

[Lenny]

I was thinking about starting a new thread for this question but it's info that might make sense in this thread.

I have a PVC pipe that appears to be some kind of by-pass. It runs from the inlet piping (just above the ground on the piping leading to the pump. It's connected to a T on the main drain pipe) to the outlet side (where it has it's own shutoff valve). I have left the valve closed because I'm not sure what it's for.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

[sdbob]

Electrical:
Lightning do's/don'ts?

Lightning do's/don'ts...

If only Ben Franklin had a kite AND a swimming pool .