Electrical Shock

[cleancloths]

I would suggest you go back to square one. Turn off the main breaker to the house and see if you still measure a voltage - that will rule out your electrical system. If you still do, then turn the main on and all the other breakers off, is it there? If not, turn on one breaker at a time and take measurements. It might be an open neutral on one circuit or a ground/neutral reversal somewhere.

[South_Texas_Sun]

Hi hsdancer,

You didn't give enough info about your pool to "diagnose" the electrical fault, but you did mention that disconnecting your "bond" wire (I assume that's another name for the ground wire/lug) stopped the voltage flow.

If I were you. I would get an 8' copper ground stake from the electrical dept. at Home Depot/Lowes (about $13) and pound it into the ground near your pool and equipment pad, then connect the chassis ground lugs on your equipment to the copper EARTH GROUNDED stake.

Many times, the "service ground" wire from the power company has a potential voltage above earth ground and a potential can develop on anything connected to the power company ground but grounded WELL to earth ground.

I can't THINK of a better way to ground YOURSELF than being immersed in SALT WATER and touching a source voltage! (lol.....sounds dangerous, doesn't it?

Also, I would worry about being able to physically "feel" 4.5VAC. Normally it takes a larger voltage than that to be able to feel a shock. (for example, the low 12vdc voltage but nearly unlimited instantaneous current flow available from an ordinary car battery.)

What I'm saying is....it may be a MUCH larger voltage that you're just unable to measure for some reason. (autoranging meter? wet spot not salty, etc.)

So I would also check that you have the electrical equipment connected correctly with matching "hot" and "return" lines connected the same way on all equipment.

You may have heard of rock stars who have been electrocuted by touching the microphone in wet weather (which is usually caused by plugging the sound reinforcement into ungrounded or reverse wired outlets) and you MAY be in a similar situation here, so I would check it out before you have a real accident.

Any indication of stray voltage like this is potentially EXTREMELY HAZARDOUS and is an accident just waiting to happen to someone who unwittingly makes a "better connection" and sits or somehow touches the wrong spot on the pool. Fortunately, it's a simple fix even if we don't completely understand why the problem exists.

Hope that helps

STS

[johnm92627]

I would suggest you go back to square one. Turn off the main breaker to the house and see if you still measure a voltage - that will rule out your electrical system. If you still do, then turn the main on and all the other breakers off, is it there? If not, turn on one breaker at a time and take measurements. It might be an open neutral on one circuit or a ground/neutral reversal somewhere.

I am an electrical contractor and I would have to agree this is the best way to start. If it doesn't locate your problem (but it should) then drive the ground rod.

[JohnT]

Sure hope it isn't a sign of problems to come!
Good luck!

It is a sign of problems. Your pool deck isn't bonded, and if it were to come in contact with a higher voltage source, you could be electrocuted when you touch the deck. Your pool company screwed up. Your electric company fixed a symptom, not the root problem.

[South_Texas_Sun]

I'm an EE by training and home/pool wiring is not rocket science. I joke with my brother in law about being a "4 wire technician" because that's pretty much what he does as an electrician.

But you absolutely.....no way around it.......need a good earth ground! That means 1-3 8' copper stakes in the ground and tied securely to your pool ground lugs and equipment lugs.

I wouldn't let anyone GO NEAR the pool, let alone SWIM in it, when you feel ANY ELECTRICAL SHOCK WHATSOEVER!

Sorry about the "yelling" but this can be much more serious than you realize until someone dies as a result. Then the blame game begins.

Pool "code" is weak or non-existant in some states, so don't depend on your contractor to know proper building codes. I caught our electrical contractor trying to install 12 guage wire for 100ft of 100 amp 230VAC supply line to the equipment pad subpanel!

There's more misinformation on the internet than good information, unless you err on the side of caution and check your sources. Do a google search on fatal ground loops......if that doesn't scare you, nothing will.

Don't do electrical work "on the cheap". Especially on a salt water swimming pool!......lol

I'll shut up now.

STS

[tenax]

and that's why i'm hiring an electrician..i've done the new wiring for a basement myself and it worked out well..but i'm not playing with water, electricity and breakers!

[JohnT]

But you absolutely.....no way around it.......need a good earth ground! That means 1-3 8' copper stakes in the ground and tied securely to your pool ground lugs and equipment lugs.

I'm an EE as well, and you absolutely do not need an earth ground on a pool system. 2005 NEC had a footnote added to clarify this. The addition of a ground rod can cause stray voltage issues under certain circumstances.

The lugs on the pool and equipment aren't called ground lugs, they are called bonding lugs, and they are used to create an "equipotential plane" which prevents anyone in the pool from coming into contact with any two things that are at significantly different voltages. Ground doesn't enter the equation until the bonding wire is connected to the bonding lug on the pump motor housing, which is grounded via the service lead to the house's service panel ground. Look at NEC 2005 680.26.

[South_Texas_Sun]

I'm an EE as well, and you absolutely do not need an earth ground on a pool system. 2005 NEC had a footnote added to clarify this. The addition of a ground rod can cause stray voltage issues under certain circumstances.

The lugs on the pool and equipment aren't called ground lugs, they are called bonding lugs, and they are used to create an "equipotential plane" which prevents anyone in the pool from coming into contact with any two things that are at significantly different voltages. Ground doesn't enter the equation until the bonding wire is connected to the bonding lug on the pump motor housing, which is grounded via the service lead to the house's service panel ground. Look at NEC 2005 680.26.

No offense, but this is what I mean by bad internet information. The NEC revision IS AN EARTH GROUND, but in grid form for pools that have conductive construction elements that can be separate from a central earth ground, but connected to improperly grounded equipment.

This won't exactly work for someone who's already built the pool! ....lol

Bottom line: Use proper EARTH grounding or get a group funeral plan.

Here's the section:

1. Revise 680.26 (C) & 680.26 (C)(1) as follows:

C) Equipotential Bonding Grid. The parts specified in 680.26(B) shall be connected to an equipotential bonding grid with a
solid copper conductor, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG or rigid metal conduit of brass or other identified
corrosion-resistant metal conduit. Connection shall be made by exothermic welding or by listed pressure connectors or clamps
that are labeled as being suitable for the purpose and are of stainless steel, brass, copper, or copper alloy. The equipotential
bonding grid shall conform to the contours of the pool and shall extend within or under paved walking surfaces for 1 m (3 ft)
horizontally beyond the inside walls of the pool and shall be permitted to be any of the following:
Exception: The equipotential bonding grid shall not be required to be installed under the bottom of or vertically along the walls of
vinyl lined polymer wall, fiberglass composite, or other pools constructed of nonconductive materials. Any metal parts of the
pool, including metal structural supports, shall be bonded in accordance with 680.26(B). For the purposes of this section, poured
concrete, pneumatically applied (sprayed) concrete, and concrete block, with painted or plastered coatings, shall be considered
conductive material.
(1) Structural Reinforcing Steel. The structural reinforcing steel of a concrete pool or deck where the reinforcing rods are bonded
together by the usual steel tie wires or the equivalent. Where deck reinforcing steel is not an integral part of the pool, the deck
reinforcing steel shall be bonded to other parts of the bonding grid using a minimum 8 AWG solid copper conductor. Connection
shall be per 680.26(D).

[Poconos]

Say What? Since when are concrete, paint, and the others considered conductive? Too many variables to make that statement in my opinion but being just a dumb EE I would like to hear some details and an explanation.
Al

Quote from post above.

"For the purposes of this section, poured concrete, pneumatically applied (sprayed) concrete, and concrete block, with painted or plastered coatings, shall be considered conductive material."

[JohnT]

Say What? Since when are concrete, paint, and the others considered conductive? Too many variables to make that statement in my opinion but being just a dumb EE I would like to hear some details and an explanation.
Al

It is because of "water intrusion", e.g. wet concrete is conductive. The rest of the statement just refers to the method of concrete application.