Do borate products (Supreme, Optimzier, etc.)work as claimed?

[waste]

WB, welcome to the forum! As you are new to both pool ownership and the forum, I suggest you read all the 'stickies' at the top of each topic and give poolsolutions a good read. Caring for a pool doesn't have to be hard, if you follow the guidlines here you can all but eliminate the problems that so many pool owners experience. In the future , it might help to post in the correct area, (I see that this one is in the 'bathing suits and loungechair section') as that will allow more people who could answer your question to see it.
With reguard to your question, I'll have to pass this on to Evan, he's currently conducting an experiment on his own poolwhich almost mirrors your querry. With any luck, he'll know what's going on (he really knows his shi*). BTW, I don't really know anything about pools, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.


Seriously, thanks to your 'experiment' and comments (findings), I think I'll start refering to Proteam by their rightful name - again, thanks Evan for all you do here and all the great help you provide!! - Ted

[waterbear]

Ted,
What can I say...I've always liked chemistry sets and now have a 6600 gallon one in my backyard!

Seriously though, it was your rant on Proteam in the china shop a while back that got me thinking about trying this since we sell the Proteam line where I work. The products in their line that I have used I have been very pleased with (Metal Magic is a prime example) but I had my own doubts about the claims for Supreme (and I distrust ANYTHING Bioguard says!) I really didn't expect the results to be so successful and time will tell if it works over the long haul. Unfortunately, I can't recommend borax at work but I have turned many of my customers on to this forum. The other ones (that just want a magic bottle for their pool problems) I can now recommend Supreme to because I know it will help.

[sailork]

I've looked at Evan and Richard's discussion regarding the dosage of borax and HCl per 1000 gallons. If they've got their numbers right it would mean a 22,000 gallon pool would require 17 boxes of borax and 5 gallons of muriatic acid. That sounds about right compared to the ProTeam Supreme dosage instructions. But that's more than $100 worth of chemicals. Cheaper than Proteam Supreme but I think I'll hold off for a bit and see if the Waterbear is still seeing good results after a week.

So, Evan, I've been waiting with bated breath. Does your pool still hold chlorine better than it did before you added Borax? Is the pool still sparklier and less eye-stingy? Can we call this technique "ProBear Supreme?"

[waterbear]

I've looked at Evan and Richard's discussion regarding the dosage of borax and HCl per 1000 gallons. If they've got their numbers right it would mean a 22,000 gallon pool would require 17 boxes of borax and 5 gallons of muriatic acid. That sounds about right compared to the ProTeam Supreme dosage instructions. But that's more than $100 worth of chemicals. Cheaper than Proteam Supreme but I think I'll hold off for a bit and see if the Waterbear is still seeing good results after a week.

So, Evan, I've been waiting with bated breath. Does your pool still hold chlorine better than it did before you added Borax?
Seems to be
Is the pool still sparklier and less eye-stingy?
Yes, the water seems clearer (I can notice it at night with the lights on) and it doesn't seem to irritate. They only way I can describe it is 'sliky'
Can we call this technique "ProBear Supreme?"

LOL....you need to give Richard some credit also...how about "Probear SuGeek"?

[waterbear]

After 6 weeks of 50 ppm borates in my pool I can say that I am satisfied that it does live up to 4 of the 5 claim made for it based on my experience with it!

1) more stable pH--after 6 weeks my pH seemed to be holding steady at 7.6-7.7 and I put in 6 oz. of acid to drop it back to 7.5 today. Before the borates I would put in 24 oz of acid every 3 weeks to drop the pH after climbing to 7.8 or 8.0.

2) Algaestatic properties--still unable to determine. Never had algae since the SWG went online and my phosphates are between 2000-3000 ppb. From what I have read and researched this would appear to be true, however.

3) reduced chlorine usage--seems to be a yes. Have lowered my SWG output to 4% today! After a week at 5% my FC was still 7 ppm. Before the experiment I was running it at about 8%-10% to maintain about 5 ppm FC. Other factors could be at play here but I have not been able to determine them.

4) silkier feeling water--less skin and eye irritation--although subjective this one appears to be a yes. The water does feel silky and is, IMHO less irritating than before!

5) clearer, 'sparkling' water--another subjective one but I would have to say yes. I have to vacumn less often and I don't have to change skimmer socks weekly. They are good for 2 weeks now.
The water is definitely clearer looking when the lights are on at night. Perhaps this is tied in with the lower chlorine demand and the algaestatic properties. I am thinking that if algae doesn't start to grow then less chlorine is used. Perhaps algae is always trying to grow in a pool and the chlorine is killing it and the stuff I was vacumning and collecting in the skimmer sock was dead algae. Would appreciate any feedback on this theory.

Would I recommend putting borates in the water to 50 ppm? From my experience so far it would be a resounding yes!
Would I recommend a product like Supreme or Optimizer? No. You can achieve the same results with plain old borax, which is what I did! The cost is considerably less.