Waterline Tile Replacement

[dave orso]

I have an old IG gunite pool. We were going to have the entire pool renovated (replastered, new tile, coping and deck) however it was nearly impossible to find a contractor. Finally decided to replace the waterline tile, coping and deck myself and leave the plaster for another time.

Well, I removed the old tile by cutting underneath it with a diamond blade saw and then chipped the old tile out. There are several spots that the plaster came off immediately below the tile line (up to 10 places that are
1/2" x 2").

Once the tile was removed, I replaced it with new tile using a thinset. Nearly all of the tile is flush with the old plaster. Some (15 linear feet) is set out from the plaster wall nearly the depth of the tile.

Need a recommendation on whether I should plaster up to the bottom of the tile around the entire pool and how I would actually accomplish this without it looking odd. I am assuming the new plaster will be bright white and the current plaster is so old and discolored it will not be even close in color.

I thought about applying tape a couple inches under the tile line and then applying the plaster.

Would applying grout under the tile as well as between the tile joints provide a watertight seal to the old plaster, and is this a better option than applying plaster?

Another thought was to saw cut another line around the pool perimeter approx 1 or 2 inches under the tile and chip out the existing plaster and replace it with new plaster.

Would appreciate your advice and feedback.

[waste]

Dave, welcome to the forum! Congrats on taking things into your own hands. It's been over 10 years since I worked for a shotcrete company, but I haven't forgotten everything What we did for setting tile and coping and for the grout was make a mix of white cement and marble dust (white) 1:1 - this was also the plaster mix (though for tile resetting, we would use thinset). Is this the same grout mix you will be using? I would grout the tile before patching the plaster. Then I would modify the mix (substitute fine sand for the marble dust, the color will match better - epecially if you can get sand that has the same colors as the discolored plaster [it'll show as patches anyway, but perhaps not so glaringly as using white plaster]). You might want to brush on a bonding agent to the patch areas before applying the new plaster to help it stick (Laticrete is the brand I know of, but there are probably other manufacturers).
I hope this gives you a few ideas on your project. Again, welcome to the forum - if you need any more help, all you have to do is ask and the nice folks here will do all they can to asist you. - Waste

[duraleigh]

Dave,

You're idea to saw cut around the entire pool is gonna' be your best option. Neither grout nor plaster will "feather edge" very well.

Color mismatch you'll have to live with. Try a small area 'til you get a mix you can tolerate. I would suggest you fill it with grout so you can grout the tile and fill the void with one step.

All masonry products will absorb water but whether you use grout or plaster won't make too much difference.

[huskyrider]

My suggestion is to hit the home run and replaster the pool now.
Your aged pool finish will really drag down the look of your new tile, coping , and decks.
If you opt not to I suggest just working the problem areas where the plaster broke off beneath the waterline tile.

See ya,
Kelly

[dave orso]

Waste, thanks and it is phase 1. Hopefully we will be able to find a contractor that is local and reputable.

Another question. What is used to lay the coping stones on over the skimmer outlet? Meaning the area in front of the skimmer where the pool water enters the skimmer mouth. My coping stones are only 3" X 8" so obviously they wont span the opening. I was thinking I could fabricate a concrete form and pour the concrete and then use over the opening, but I would prefer to be able to use my coping stones around the entire perimeter of the pool. Perhaps a sheet of stainless steel should be place over the top and then I could tile the bottom so it would not be seen?

Also, not sure if you saw my post regarding my tile being 1-2 inches above the beam...would sure like to hear your recommendation for that. I am working in the backyard and taking breaks only to check this website! Looks like I have become dependent on technology/internet.

Dave

[waste]

Dave, you probably don't want to cantaliever the deck just over the skimmer (the neighbors would talk... ) it wouldn't look 'right'. We always used 2' X 1' 'AQ' (if memory is correct?) cast coping on our pools. We would put a 8"x 2' x 1/4" strip of steel across the opening for support (and plan the coping layout so that 1 peice would span it - the steel was just insurance). Sounds like your idea of using a sheet of SS would do what you want (as I understand your last post, it can be inbedded in the coping morter, with space to spare. - you might want to paint it (i'm assuming again) white, with Rustolium or equivalent). If you want to tile it, go ahead, it's your pool and you can do whatever you want to it! If you tile the top of the skimmer mouth, you might want to think about using a different tile, it's hard to get 'top tile' to look right and using a complementary, but slightly different, pattern will lessen the effect. (Just my $.02).
I'm gonna go look at your other post to see if I have any ideas. - Happy swimming!

[imfignewton]

If you are not going to replaster the whole pool then don't spend a lot of time cutting and chipping. Just use a small angel grinder with a diamond blade and cut out a small area under the 15 feet that is sticking out (keep the are rough). Then use the grout that is used for the tile as mentioned above (make sure it is modified, it will have a bonding agent in it). Use a small margin trowel to apply the grout in the plaster make up area, then as it stiffens up use a small round piece of plastic (yogurt top or coke bottle works well) to smooth out and you can even shave a little of the grout off and re smooth if it to thick at the transistion.

As for the one to two inches that need filling on the bond beam the best thing to use is Quikcrete Fastset Repair Mortor (Home Depot or Lowes) www.quikrete.com/catalog/FastSetRepairMortar.html. In the two inch areas I would add gravel to the mix and I would install Tapcon screws to better anchor the cement to the bond beam.

Stainless Steel Lintel -Put stainless steel lintel 1/4 inch thick x width of bond beam x two inches longer than skimmer mouth opening in bond beam. Drill hole in each side of the lintel then Tapcon lintel to bond beam. Install linel so it does not stick out at the same level of the tile. The lintel will support any coping material so it will not crack. Hope this helps

[dave orso]

Thank You!

Cheers,
Dave

[dave orso]

Waste,
What do you think about duraleigh's comment about feather edging? I have read that before somewhere else.

Duraleigh,
Wouldn't I run the risk of chipping off plaster under the cut line? That is why I was hesitant to try that option. When I saw cut around the pool under the tile I did not expect to have portions of plaster come off, so it seems that it would happen again? Thoughts?

Cheers,
Dave

[duraleigh]

Well, If it chips off at that point, it's probably indicative that it was never bonded....so you'd want it off anyway. If the chip is at least a 16th deep, you wont have to worry about the feathered edge (although I would not use sanded grout 1/16th thick...that's too thin...you're back to plaster)

The problem then would become an irregular transition line (from old to new)that would probably not be very esthetic. I cant think of a way to solve that.