Stains returning

[Roddapool]

one more thing it's a 25000 gal kidney shaped pool with a heater
DE filter

[gerri]

I used metal magic - while it wasn't exactly magical about taking off some tough old iron stains it did further lighten them - nothing so far has completely removed them though so it worked as well as Ascorbic Acid and better than Oxalic. One thing I do notice though is that I had little granules on the bottom after a couple of days. They were rust colored.. so possibly, and just maybe it did cause the iron I have to drop out of the water. I'm still seeing a bit of it each day and I'm cleaning it out each day. It looks like rust colored sand. It did take me a week to get my water clear again after the metal magic treatment, so I didn't post before now about results because I really couldn't tell about the stains. They are still there a bit, but lighter than ever. I think 1 more AA treatment may do the trick.

[gerri]

United sells the Oxalic Acid treatment, so that's what you have from the pool store. You need to drop your chlorine down to 0 and lower your Ph to 7 or 7.2 and then do the treatment, that way you will get the best results with it. Expect cloudy water and after 48 hours start bringing your Cl back in gradually. If the Oxalic doesn't work I would have to recommend the Ascorbic Acid treatment and preparation is the same for that treatment as well. Running high Cl will be making your stains stick better so lower it and stop running at shock levels, if the stains aren't organic (algae and such) then it won't take them off and you're making matters worse.

Good luck with it. Let us know how it goes with the United (Oxalic) treatment.

[mbar]

Is CA chlorine? If so your chlorine is high along with high ph which will make any metal that was in the water fall out onto the surface of the pool. United chemical is an oxalic acid. It will bring down your ph, along with your chlorine. With such a high chlorine level it may take a lot of stain treat, because the chlorine will eat up the oxalic acid. Even though your water didn't test for metals, it was in there - it can come from many things, fertilizer is one. Is your pool a plaster or vinyl or fiberglass. If it is plaster a calcium of 90 is not enough, you need 200 - 400 in a plaster pool. If it is vinyl or fiberglass 90 is fine.

I would suggest letting your chlorine fall to normal level before doing the stain treat (so that you will not need as much product) - which for a cya of 90 would be 10ppm. You can use some muriatic acid to get your ph down while waiting for the chlorine to drop - I would take it down to 7.2 - 7.4. Your alkalinity is a little high also, it should not be higer than 120. Then you can do the stain treat, which will bring down you ph and alkalinty. Post your numbers after the stain treat - let me know if all of the stains come off. Good luck.

[mbar]

Hi Gerri, It sounds like the metal magic does turn the metals into crystals - I would put a little more ascorbic acid in, so it will lift the stains off, then combine with the metal magic to get rid of it. Metal magic sells an ascorbic acid based product to use along with the metal magic too, so that's why the stubborn stains didn't come off with just the metal magic. Hopefully this will be the cure!! Please let us know how it goes.

Roddapool, Gerri is right about the low chlorine and ph to get the united chemical stain treat to work better, but it is ok to use with chlorine, it will just use up the chlorine in the process. It will take the chlorine and ph down on it's own. It will tell you on the container that you can use it with chlorine and ph. It just doesn't tell you that you will need more product to do the work. So it is up to you. Let us know if it doesn't take all of the stain off - because there are other ways to get it off.

[waterbear]

Metal magic sells an ascorbic acid based product to use along with the metal magic too, so that's why the stubborn stains didn't come off with just the metal magic. Hopefully this will be the cure!! Please let us know how it goes.

Marie, I do not think that Proteam sells an ascorbic acid treatment. As far as I know Metal Magic is their only stain treatment and seqesterant. NaturalChemisty does sell ascboric acid under the name of 'Stain Free'. It costs about $30/lb.

[mbar]

I must have mixed it up with another product, I thought I read somewhere that you had to remove some of the stubborn stains first, getting them off the surface of the pool, so they could be removed by the metal magic - sorry.

[Roddapool]

Thank you for all the info sounds like I'm on the right track.

One more thing, as I was cleaning out the filter I noticed that the filter elem. had a redish/brown stain on it. Does that sound like the same as my lyner and should I do the same treatment (soaking it in a garbage can) before or after I do the Pool.

[mbar]

I sounds like the same thing that is on the pool. I would soak the filter after. What happened is that the some of the stain fell out on the filter - which is what you would want, because then the metal is out of the water. It is hard to do this specifically, but it is a great thing! The reason I would do it afterwards, is that you will probably get some staining on the filter while doing the stain treatment. So it is up to you - you can do it before, but you will probably get some more, so it will be double work. In any case if all of the stain doesn't come off the surface of the pool, let us know.

[JonnyG]

Marie -

I have been following all of these threads with high interest and was wondering if you have summarized the process for removing the stains (the full treatment). I have stains on my plaster pool which I have been battling with Jacks blue magic but since I have an SWG I have a rather high PH and I typically keep the FC at 3-5ppm. Based on all the threads I am still a little confused on exactly what steps to take to get rid of these nasties. LEt me take a shot at this and let me know how close I am -

1) Bring PH down to 7.0-7.2 --> Muriatic acid
2) Reduce chlorine as much as possible as it will eat up the absorbic acid
3) Add absorbic acid to remove the stains and filter?
- How much #'s per 10,000 gallons?
- Filter or not? How long?
4) Keep adding muriatic acid to keep the PH down and do not add any more chlorine
5) When do I add the sequestor? When the stains dissappear or before? --> sounds like ProTeam Magic is the stuff to add.
6) I have a DE filter, I assume that as the ProTeam Magic causes the metals to fall out, I should vacuum them and then backwash my filter.
7) Once all stains are gone then add bleach slowly to raise the CHlorine backup. Keep the PH around 7.2- 7.4. Also check the Calcium level as some of it may have precipated out, correct?


Does that sound correct? Please let me know if I got the gist of this, I will probably take a stab at doing this next week.

Thanks much
John