Stains returning

[waterbear]

Metal magic sells an ascorbic acid based product to use along with the metal magic too, so that's why the stubborn stains didn't come off with just the metal magic. Hopefully this will be the cure!! Please let us know how it goes.

Marie, I do not think that Proteam sells an ascorbic acid treatment. As far as I know Metal Magic is their only stain treatment and seqesterant. NaturalChemisty does sell ascboric acid under the name of 'Stain Free'. It costs about $30/lb.

[mbar]

I must have mixed it up with another product, I thought I read somewhere that you had to remove some of the stubborn stains first, getting them off the surface of the pool, so they could be removed by the metal magic - sorry.

[Roddapool]

Thank you for all the info sounds like I'm on the right track.

One more thing, as I was cleaning out the filter I noticed that the filter elem. had a redish/brown stain on it. Does that sound like the same as my lyner and should I do the same treatment (soaking it in a garbage can) before or after I do the Pool.

[mbar]

I sounds like the same thing that is on the pool. I would soak the filter after. What happened is that the some of the stain fell out on the filter - which is what you would want, because then the metal is out of the water. It is hard to do this specifically, but it is a great thing! The reason I would do it afterwards, is that you will probably get some staining on the filter while doing the stain treatment. So it is up to you - you can do it before, but you will probably get some more, so it will be double work. In any case if all of the stain doesn't come off the surface of the pool, let us know.

[JonnyG]

Marie -

I have been following all of these threads with high interest and was wondering if you have summarized the process for removing the stains (the full treatment). I have stains on my plaster pool which I have been battling with Jacks blue magic but since I have an SWG I have a rather high PH and I typically keep the FC at 3-5ppm. Based on all the threads I am still a little confused on exactly what steps to take to get rid of these nasties. LEt me take a shot at this and let me know how close I am -

1) Bring PH down to 7.0-7.2 --> Muriatic acid
2) Reduce chlorine as much as possible as it will eat up the absorbic acid
3) Add absorbic acid to remove the stains and filter?
- How much #'s per 10,000 gallons?
- Filter or not? How long?
4) Keep adding muriatic acid to keep the PH down and do not add any more chlorine
5) When do I add the sequestor? When the stains dissappear or before? --> sounds like ProTeam Magic is the stuff to add.
6) I have a DE filter, I assume that as the ProTeam Magic causes the metals to fall out, I should vacuum them and then backwash my filter.
7) Once all stains are gone then add bleach slowly to raise the CHlorine backup. Keep the PH around 7.2- 7.4. Also check the Calcium level as some of it may have precipated out, correct?


Does that sound correct? Please let me know if I got the gist of this, I will probably take a stab at doing this next week.

Thanks much
John

[mbar]

John, you have it down pretty well. You will need about 1 to 2 lbs of ascorbic acid for 10,000 gal. It really depends on how much staining you have. Once you take the ph & chlorine down - you won't have to take it down anymore - the ascorbic acid will do that. When you add the ascorbic acid wlak around the pool dropping down the sides of the wall, put your filter on circulate if you have that mode - if not just keep it filtering. You can add the sepuesterer right away - you want the metals to bind with the sequesterer as soon as they are lifted off the surface of the pool. Keep the filter running 24/7, after all of the stains are gone, and 24 hours have passed, you can start to bring up your ph - sometimes it takes a while, although some people don't get the low ph from the ascorbic acid, I always did. Metal Magic says to use when the ph is above 7.5, so if you use Metal Magic, I would put that in before the ascorbic acid while your ph is high. It probably will bring down the ph, that's why they want you to use it with a higher ph. You can put this in right before the ascorbic acid, however long it will take it to circulate through the water.

After 48 hours you can start to raise your chlorine level slowly. It will take a while to hold, so you have to keep adding it to get it to hold at the low end of your chlorine demand for the amount of cya you have. I like to use regular bleach to raise the chlorine slowly, because you can control the amount you use. You can also put a trichlor puck in the skimmer while you are starting to raise the chlorine - this way any metal that is going to stain when it hits the chlorine will stain on the filter. Do not put the bleach in the skimmer while a trichlor puck is in it - you can pour it in the water by the return jet. If you see any staining start to come back, lower the ph back to 7.2 and add some more sequesterer. The important thing is to get all of the metals that come off the surface sequestered, so they don't fall back out when the chlorine is raised. If you have a lot of staining you will need a lot of sequestering agent - more than the bottle says. Don't get worried if the water gets cloudy - just keep the filter running. If you are afraid of algae, you can add a dose of polyquat before you do the stain treatment. I have never gotten algae while doing a stain treatment, but I usually had to do them in the beginning of the summer when the weather was not hot, and the water was cold. Hope you can understand all of this - if you have any questions please feel free to ask. Good luck. If you need a link to find ascorbic acid let me know.

[JonnyG]

Marie -

Thank you for your quick reply. I will keep you informed on my progress and how well this method works with plaster pools. Hopefully all will go well

regards
John

[Roddapool]

Between waiting for the CL to go down and all the rain we’ve been having I finally had a chance to add chem. to remove stains and the pool has never looked so good in the two years we’ve owned the pool, and this is the first year I’ve taken care of it myself.

Here are my numbers now
CL - 0
PH – 7.2
TA – 0
CH – 70
CYA – 100

I know I have to add bleach slowly what about my TA

[mbar]

You will have to raise your alkalinity. Ascorbic acid, or some stain removers are very acidic and can bring your ph and alkalinity down. You will need to add baking soda to take your alkalinity up to 80 - 125. Since you were dealing with stains, I would keep the alkalinity on the low side - about 80. Your ph is good for now, because you will need to start to add the chlorine. Just add it slowly.

With a 25,000 gal pool, you will need 28 lbs of baking soda to take you to 80 alk. I would put in 14 lbs, wait about 2 hours, check and then add more till you get to 80. Bring up your chlorine to 8ppms right away. With a cya of 100, you need a minimum of 8ppms of chlorine in your pool. You can take it up higher if you have any combined chlorine, but you would want to do it slowly so you can watch for some stains reappearing. If stains start to reappear, then you need to make sure your ph is no higher than 7.2, and add more sequesterer.

Feel free to ask any other questions you may have