i'm a patriotic canadian but..THIEVES!

[tenax]

now that things have worked out, i can smile and rant at the same time..just wanted to comment on the "joke" that we call canadian pool stores...lousy websites, high high prices. while as a radio station manager, i prefer to support local businesses and am willing to pay say 10-20% more for items, there can be price differences that can't be ignored..case in point without naming names:

zeobrite- same price about as u.s. , but 100 dollars for shipping! (versus 6.99 from the online store in u.s. that is fast becoming a favorite of mine..i'm 3 orders deep with them and order 4 is on the way..they don't disappoint)

pool vac- 500 bucks- same one 145 (ok it was ebay..but still)

pool pump- 600 bucks- again, ebay for 145 (almost my best find this summer) but even so, 300 to 350 for the same pump from u.s. online supplier.

pool cover, reel and casters- 700- got for 400 from my favorite us online store.

pool heater- 2400 plus 200 freight for a jandy 2 lite from both local pool stores. 1100 including shipping from an online us store.

chlorinator system- 1200- 700 from u.s. online store.

i know that in my area of the country, there isn't a huge call for pools but there is for spas and that's where they make tons of money. they don't advertise anywhere cause they are the only game in town..another pet peeve of mine...so i was quite happy to tell them where to go when they quoted me the book price on the pool heater.

small profit is still better than no profit. i've spent almost 3000 u.s. in the past 2 months to change out almost everything in my system and they didn't get a sniff of it locally except for the replacement piping and connectors i needed. would have cost me 5600 to buy locally!

i don't know the profit margin on the above, but it has to be minimum 20% for the local guys. so..600 cash in pocket..to bad, so sad.

[sevver]

That is the way, hit them in the pocketbook. If only everyone else would do it too. I try to never buy retail, always used, free or ebay. Craigslist is nice too. At the very least shop around for the best deal.

[tenax]

it's what i love about the net..i buy most things i buy xmas gifts, home products almost exclusively online now..we are much more educated buyers thanks to the web...it was time well spent and sure feels good when you know with a few hours work you've saved a bunch of coin.

[matt4x4]

The web has changed the way we do business, many people still fear the web, guess it's the old "afraid of the unknown" syndrome.
Some people juts gotta have it in their hands right away, where if I can save a good chunk, I'll get it off the web any day!
another tupe of store I like are stores like "excess cargo", who sell factory seconds merchandise. Many don't know this, but factory seconds in most cases does not mean anything anymore. In most cases it's where a big box store received a shipment that got damaged in transit, they flat out refuse the entire shipment, the manufacturer then ships it to a breakdown center where the skid gets ripped down, the damaged goods thrown away and the remaining 90% of undamaged goods go on an auction block to the highest bidder such as excess cargo - sometimes they go straight to the auction and they'll bid on a guestimate of good items left in that set. Usually it's bought for cents on the dollar. Sure, that item may have a couple more shipping miles on it, but well worth it to you and I the consumer.
The reason they can't resell to another big retailer is because teh goods were allready considered sold once, so a discounter gets them.
I purchased a 400 digital camera for 90 bucks that way - never once gave me a problem, same with my camcorder and a few other things.
That's probably how half of ebay works too.

[joliecharlie]

at least prescription drugs are cheaper in Canada!!! (Guess that is still the case!)

[jenpen400]

I have no choice but to get the most for the money. We have a family of 4 I'm a stay at home mom and hubby is an aircraft mechanic and makes half what he did pre 9/11. I shop gas this way too. I search for the best price online in my area then tell all my friends. At least this forces them to be fair. Now every one has to make a living and I really tried to buy my pool equiptment locally. I knew what I wanted I knew they had it. I asked for it and they tried to sell me something else. So I left and saved money on the net.

Keep them honest

jennifer

PS I do like spend my out to eat money at the local mom & pop Mexican restraunts in San Antonio!

[Poconos]

Here in Pudunkville, PA 18431 we got a MalWart Supercenter right down the road about 5 years ago then last year a Home Depot....YEAAAAA !! I no longer have to drive 30 miles each way to hit one. I still support the mom & pop stores whenever possible which is 90% of the time. Food, appliances, etc. On a $1K purchase I think an extra $50-$100 to support local is good and I do it. The MalWart didn't seem to affect local businesses that much and the Home Depot has had a minimal effect I think. Here in Podunkville we have about 6 auto stores and 1 hardware store before HD. Downtown still thrives. At least now I don't need to keep a large stock of PVC stuff in my basement.
Al

[PoolDoc]

I would encourage you all to be careful with your words.

After years of not thinking well of salesmen, I find myself up to the eyeballs in retail sales, via the testkits, myself. It's unfortunately quite true that many sales people lie. They often even deceive themselves with their own lies, using phrases like "just business" and the like. After a very difficult summer and many problems with the kits, I see how salesmen are tempted to deceive your customers as I never have before.

But, even if they are often liars, not so many sales people and retailers are actually thieves.

That they charge more than you would like to pay is not truly theft, unless you are somehow compelled to purchase from those selling. It's not even "gouging", unless they are selling what necessities, or near-necessities, under conditions where they are your only practical source of supply.

Selling good products for low prices and still remaining profitable as a business is difficult, and requires that the business, and its owners and managers acquire and apply many different skills. Walmart has done unbelieveably well at this, but what they've done is very, very hard.

Many of the swimming pool discount retailers are actually side operations of other, successful, pool businesses. And, in more than a few cases, they are quite literally sucking the financial life out of that parent business. Many sites have ceased operation over the past few years, after the injury became more than the parent company could bear. In some cases, bankruptcies have resulted, with the internet offspring killing the parent. In more than a few cases, your savings on Internet-purchased pool items come almost directly from the bank account of the parent company.

It's worthy of notice that the long time catalog retailers, like Leslies, have successful Internet sales divisions that are NOT based on heavy discounting.

With respect to sales in Canada of US made products, I can tell you myself that it's not that easy. I've tried several times, and had to give up each time. Customs charges and regulations are complicated and hard to figure out, as is cross-border shipping. With respect to overall paperwork and regulation, Canada seems to be worse than either California or New York, which are certainly among the most highly regulated US states. Even where the required paperwork is not worse than what is required in the US, it's still different. This means starting from scratch with things like MSDS sheets.

There are numerous Canadian distributors or importers with 'exclusive' rights to a particular product line, and they are very jealous of those rights. In many cases, they pioneered distribution of a particular product line in Canada at a time when all sales requires shoe-leather representation and brick and mortar retail locations. The Internet has changed all that, but you can be sure that these reps, who have learned the hard way about the 'ins and outs' of Canadidan regulations, will be looking over the shoulder of anyone who attempts to ship a few items across the border. They are more than happy to point out any failures to get the paperwork right. As you might guess, penalties for getting it wrong can be severe.

For high volume sellers like Walmart, the costs of figuring all out can be spread over millions and millions of items. But no such opportunity exists for most pool product retailers. Canada is a small swimming pool market, smaller than many individual US states., but spread over a huge geographical area.

For all these reasons, margins on pool products sold in Canada have to be higher than the same products sold in the US.

How much higher? I don't know.

Personally, I found I couldn't charge enough to make it worthwhile. Even if I doubled the price, for Canadian sales, of the PS234 kits it would be a money losing proposition for me. So, I just turn away non-US sales.

Barriers between countries exist, by design. The problem is even worse, when selling to other countries, like Mexico or Australia. There's no real solution that I know of -- I'd posted a facetious one, tongue in cheek, not realizing that it would be offensive.

Please understand: I am NOT saying that it's wrong or disloyal to shop for the best price.

I'm just asking that you think a bit, before applying the word, "thief" to Canadian retailers. I'm sure a few are. Probably even more are guilty of "larceny in their hearts". But I hope I've offered some evidence that simply charging more than US retailers do, is not evidence of theft!

Sincerely,

Ben
"PoolDoc"

[GHM]

(Apparently offensive suggestion deleted by PoolDoc)
"PoolDoc"

Is that the best solution you can come up with?...
This comment shall surely piss off a lot of Canadians. Especially Quebecers.

[PoolDoc]

Is that the best solution you can come up with?...

Sorry, didn't realize it would be offensive. My point was, that as long as the US and Canada are separate countries, and as long as Canada is a relatively small market, low volume US-made goods, such as pool products, will tend to be significantly more expensive there, then here.

It is possible to ship to Canada and ignore all that stuff, either ignorantly or because you hope you won't get caught. I know, because I did it some, before I understood some of the issues. But the whole problem of different regulations and different certifications creates an almost insurmountable problem with respect to chemicals and electrical devices.

Ben